F41

427strato · Addicted!

F41

gparis7 · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

My understanding is that the F41 front bar was the same as the F40 HD front bar, and the same as on the wagons from 65-70, so it shouldn't be too hard to find. It's 15/16ths diameter. Over the years I've seen them on 67-70 Canadian Pontiac sedans and wagons, as well as on 67-70 Chevrolet Full size wagons, sedans and hardtops. Cars I've pulled them from were 67 & 68 Laurentian sedans, 68 Bel air wagon, 69 Impala 4 dr ht, and 70 Biscayne sedan. But you only got the bigger bar with F40 HD suspension - I also had a 69 Caprice 396 with the smaller front bar because it did not have F40, which was HD springs and shocks plus bigger front bar.

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

Are you guys sure on this? I have 3 different B body parts books for Chev and Pontiac and they all say that the 65-70 B body front bar is the same on all models no matter what suspension option or body style.

gparis7 · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

Yes, I'm sure they are different. My 68 Caprice has F41 with the big front bar and a rear bar. My 69 Caprice had a small bar but I put one on from a 69 Impala with F40. My 65 Parisienne convt had a small bar and I replaced it with a big bar from a 70 Biscayne with F40. And my 69 Parisienne had a small bar despite the 427 engine, and I put a big bar on it form a 68 Laurentian sedan.

2drpost · Uber Guru

does the 15/16 bar make a noticeable difference over the 7/8 bar?

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

Wow, I gotta say, I am never too old to learn. I have owned big Pontiacs many years and never knew there is 2 choices. I will take my cheap plastic caliper along with me to the auto wreckings from now on.

I assume the 15/16 is not a hard bar to find?

gparis7 · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

I've never actually measured the smaller bar but you can see the difference - very noticeable side by side - and I thought it was more like 3/4". On a big heavy car like my 69 Caprice (396 4 dr ht) and 69 Parisienne (427) the handling was improved. But a lot of ugrading besides the font bar went into the Parisienne. Previous owner added a rear bar plus new HD springs so it is a combination that makes this car a good handler.
If I was to do anything else with any of these cars I'd probably go for an aftermarket 1&1/8 inch front bar and ~1 inch rear bar from a late 80s Caprice cop car. As to plentifulness: Over the years I've pulled these 15/16 bars mostly from abandoned junkers in the woods (we used to have a lot of those down here - not anymore, all crushed). I found them a lot on 68-69 Pontiac sedans, as well as 68-70 Chevys. I think the 70 Biscayne I pulled one off of must have been an old cop car or fleet car.
But that's the wierd thing about Canadian cars - you never know what you'll find in them. I had three 67-68 Chev Biscayne & Bel Air wagons, one 9 passenger, and two 6 passenger, and the all three had 10 bolt rear ends, one of which was a posi. Yet I also pulled 12 bolts out of half a dozen 65-70 Biscayne, Laurentian, Strato Chief, Parisienne, Impala and Bel Air sedans with 6 cyls or base v8 engines. And two of those were posi's as well.
These were almost all junkers, usually left upside down in the woods and pretty picked over. Last time I made a visit to one of these places though, every 12 bolt there had all the internals pulled out after having sat untouched for years.

2drpost · Uber Guru

looked at a plain jane '66 bel air 4dr 283 pglide last fall, big surprise when i looked underneath and saw a 12 bolt staring back at me. weirdface

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

Amazing how often that happened. The yard we live in was my uncle's. He had a 65 Laurentian 6 cyl 3 speed bolt action, 12 bolt posi!

My brother's were old enough to covet that diff under his car! Fortunately, I was not old enough at that time to understand....

427strato · Addicted!

Thanks for all of the great information. If anyone has one of these bars please advise and I will purchase same as I doub't I will find one that easily. In the event you are in Ontario I would come and pick it up otherwise shipping would be the other alternative. Thanks a lot, Doug.

427strato · Addicted!

I haven't heard about any F41 front bars for sale so I thought I might as well request another problem part. When I purchased my car in 1968 I was too naive to order disc brakes as there was little information about them at the time plus it was going to cost me $156.00. This does sound ridiculous however it was about 5% of the purchase price and you could't even see what you paid for. Anyway, I would like to purchase a stock setup for the front of a full size 1968 car rather than the aftermarket as it uses the drum brake spindle. Again, if anyone has a set for sale in Ontario I would come and pick same up. Thanks a lot, Doug.

Canadian Poncho · A Poncho Legend!

Doug,
You haven't told us much about your car (unless I missed the post). Is it a 68 or 9? Any photos?
Thanks
Todd

gparis7 · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

Re. the disc brakes. You might be able to find a 67-68 4 piston disc brake setup ( I saw one at the Barrie flea market about 10 years ago but it was in bad shape) but they were apparently prone to leaks. Three of my cars have front disk brakes, and two were conversions. I used the 69-70 single piston setup. This is the best way to go because most of the parts are cheap and readily available at the local parts store ( I just bought a master cylinder, pads, two calipers & the bearings for about $150.00 from the parts store down the street) except the rotors. The rotors are available from Kanter Auto Products for about $180 each. You do have to change the spindles, and the hub size is larger than on the 67-68 cars. But disc brakes were standard equipt on 70 Impala custom and Caprice 2 door HTs & many 69-70 wagons & 4 dr Hts had them, so they shouldn't be too hard to locate. I have 4 sets in total and all of them came from 69 caprice 4 dr hts. I also have seen them on a 69 Parisienne wagon.

2qwik2c · Poncho Master!

427strato wrote:

Thanks for all of the great information. If anyone has one of these bars please advise and I will purchase same as I doub't I will find one that easily. In the event you are in Ontario I would come and pick it up otherwise shipping would be the other alternative. Thanks a lot, Doug.

Hi Doug I have an extra one kicking around I'm sure. PM me and we will figure something out. Andrew.

2qwik2c · Poncho Master!

Carl Stevenson wrote:

Amazing how often that happened. The yard we live in was my uncle's. He had a 65 Laurentian 6 cyl 3 speed bolt action, 12 bolt posi!

My brother's were old enough to covet that diff under his car! Fortunately, I was not old enough at that time to understand....

Carl, Bostrows yard out here by selkirk has afew fullsize chev 4 doors with 12 bolts still in them. There just plain 283 cars. theres a 67 and 68 there with 12 bolts. Let me know if your going to be out this way and we can go check out his yard??? Andrew.

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

I will do that. It's long overdue that I go there. I think he is only open Sat till noon if I am right?

2qwik2c · Poncho Master!

gparis7 wrote:

I've never actually measured the smaller bar but you can see the difference - very noticeable side by side - and I thought it was more like 3/4". On a big heavy car like my 69 Caprice (396 4 dr ht) and 69 Parisienne (427) the handling was improved. But a lot of ugrading besides the font bar went into the Parisienne. Previous owner added a rear bar plus new HD springs so it is a combination that makes this car a good handler.
If I was to do anything else with any of these cars I'd probably go for an aftermarket 1&1/8 inch front bar and ~1 inch rear bar from a late 80s Caprice cop car. As to plentifulness: Over the years I've pulled these 15/16 bars mostly from abandoned junkers in the woods (we used to have a lot of those down here - not anymore, all crushed). I found them a lot on 68-69 Pontiac sedans, as well as 68-70 Chevys. I think the 70 Biscayne I pulled one off of must have been an old cop car or fleet car.
But that's the wierd thing about Canadian cars - you never know what you'll find in them. I had three 67-68 Chev Biscayne & Bel Air wagons, one 9 passenger, and two 6 passenger, and the all three had 10 bolt rear ends, one of which was a posi. Yet I also pulled 12 bolts out of half a dozen 65-70 Biscayne, Laurentian, Strato Chief, Parisienne, Impala and Bel Air sedans with 6 cyls or base v8 engines. And two of those were posi's as well.
These were almost all junkers, usually left upside down in the woods and pretty picked over. Last time I made a visit to one of these places though, every 12 bolt there had all the internals pulled out after having sat untouched for years.

I thought 6cyl cars were front sway bar deleted??? Maybe just 2dr sedans??? I guess I need to check my all original 6cyl 2dr biscayne at the parents place.

2qwik2c · Poncho Master!

Carl Stevenson wrote:

I will do that. It's long overdue that I go there. I think he is only open Sat till noon if I am right?

I'm not sure I've been there several times but cant remember when??? All the times I was there if he was home he said giver, if he left for abit he said don't leave till I get back. He doesn't mind people coming and asking to go look. He hates people sneeking in and stealing stuff. Carl I would love to check out that yard you went to in Minnesota can you PM me the details to get there??? Andrew.

427strato · Addicted!

Hi. I apologize for not advising as to the particulars of the vehicle I require the parts for. I purchased my 1968 Strato Chief new from C. W. Smith Motors (1966) Ltd. in Brantford, Ontario, in May of 1968. According to my receipts I ordered the car on April 22/68 and had the car for the 2-4 weekend; a five week turnaround. It is a 427 cu. in., 385 hrs., 4 spd., 3:73 posi., tinted glass, F41., power rear antenna and AM radio with rear speaker. I wasn't bright enough to keep it so I traded in it in Oct. 1968 on a 1967 Corvette 427-435 at Vette City on Bay St. in Toronto. I found the car in about 1982-84 in Collingwood and re-purchased it in 1989 out of a barn where it had been stored for a few years. It has been sitting since waiting for me to complete my other numerous projects. The engine is sitting waiting to go to the machine shop however I just purchased the engine out of one of my old corvettes to make it a driver and hence it moves up on my list. I have my original bill of sale for the car. Someone converted it to an automatic however the original Muncie was in the trunk with the driveshaft and the clutch pedal was under the carpet. I found the original z-bar in the trunk yesterday and have a couple of bench seat shifters. By the way, GM says it is one of five. Thanks for the interest, Doug.

Canadian Poncho · A Poncho Legend!

I'm glad I asked! Sounds like an awesome car! Any photos?

2drpost · Uber Guru

2qwik2c wrote:

gparis7 wrote:

I've never actually measured the smaller bar but you can see the difference - very noticeable side by side - and I thought it was more like 3/4". On a big heavy car like my 69 Caprice (396 4 dr ht) and 69 Parisienne (427) the handling was improved. But a lot of ugrading besides the font bar went into the Parisienne. Previous owner added a rear bar plus new HD springs so it is a combination that makes this car a good handler.
If I was to do anything else with any of these cars I'd probably go for an aftermarket 1&1/8 inch front bar and ~1 inch rear bar from a late 80s Caprice cop car. As to plentifulness: Over the years I've pulled these 15/16 bars mostly from abandoned junkers in the woods (we used to have a lot of those down here - not anymore, all crushed). I found them a lot on 68-69 Pontiac sedans, as well as 68-70 Chevys. I think the 70 Biscayne I pulled one off of must have been an old cop car or fleet car.
But that's the wierd thing about Canadian cars - you never know what you'll find in them. I had three 67-68 Chev Biscayne & Bel Air wagons, one 9 passenger, and two 6 passenger, and the all three had 10 bolt rear ends, one of which was a posi. Yet I also pulled 12 bolts out of half a dozen 65-70 Biscayne, Laurentian, Strato Chief, Parisienne, Impala and Bel Air sedans with 6 cyls or base v8 engines. And two of those were posi's as well.
These were almost all junkers, usually left upside down in the woods and pretty picked over. Last time I made a visit to one of these places though, every 12 bolt there had all the internals pulled out after having sat untouched for years.

I thought 6cyl cars were front sway bar deleted??? Maybe just 2dr sedans??? I guess I need to check my all original 6cyl 2dr biscayne at the parents place.

my bel air was an original 6cyl 3spd car, didn't have a front sway bar.

cdnpont · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

I looked for quite a while for a factory F41 front bar. It's not really an easy item to find. Eventually I just bought an Addco 1 1/8 bar from summit. It came with endlinks and bar bushings and brackets. The endlinks looked ok, but I eventually used all Energy suspension parts anyway (greasable bushings). The only shorcoming with the Addco bar is that you must drill new holes to mount the bar brackets. No biggie though.
The Addco bar now comes black powdercoated insted of yellow zinc.

Summit Racing

gparis7 · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

A 68 427 Strato Chief bought new. Awesome car. You're lucky to have been able to retrieve it. I think that on the 6 cyl Biscayne and Strato Chiefs for sure, the front sway bar was optional, espy 65-66. But I've never seen a 65-70 full size Chevrolet or Pontiac that did not have a front bar, although they were sometimes the smaller bar. I just bought a front and rear addco setup for my 63 Impala, and they look quite good, althought the rear in particular installs differently than the factory F41 style bar.

427strato · Addicted!

The only reason I ever purchased this car is that my EX-father-in-law sold Pontiacs at that time. At the first of that week, in 1968, I had completed an Order for a 1968 Roadrunner, 426-425, in the same colour scheme and was to drop back with a cheque for $200.00 prior to the end of that business day for them to submit the Order. This was about 5% of the purchase price at that time. Anyway my ex was so upset at me that I purchased the Pontiac. Thank God I bought the Pontiac because I doubt that Roadrunner would be worth anything more than scrap today. Back to the F41 bar. When we were looking at the option list available for my car the F41 was supposedly ONLY available with a 427. There were two options for suspension; no. 1, heavy duty suspension, which if I remember correctly was $6.00 and, no. 2, F41, which was $24.00. They knew nothing more about it and the only reason I ordered it was that is was for a 427 only. You would think however that there was something to it for the tremendous extra expense of $18.00. I later found out that it was in fact, as pointed out by a number of other persons on this forum, indeed a 15/16ths bar. A very good friend purchased a Biscayne 2 weeks before me with the same driveline and suspension components. The car is sitting about 7 miles from me and I asked the present owner if he would sell me the bar and he agreed. I looked at the car behind his garage and someone had cut the bar out prior to him getting the car and he hadn't looked. I will use the Addco bar if I cannot find an original as the one shown in the picture posted by cdnpont looks really good to me.

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

OK, now I am really confused. I spent almost all day Friday in a wrecking yard.

I checked about 20 or so cars. The first 2 I looked at were 66 Chev wagons. Both had the 15/16 bar. One was a 283 Belair, plain wagon. The other was a pretty loaded 327 Impala wagon. One more 66 wagon I looked at also had 15/16.

I looked at a few 67-69 wagons as well, and NONE had 15/16. Go figure. As a matter of fact, only one of the rest of the 20 or so cars had a 15/16 bar, and if I remember right it was a very nicely optioned 4 door hardtop. There seemed to be no pattern at all other than all 66 wagons had the big bar.

I looked at wagons, sedans, and hardtops to try to get a good mix.

This is an American yard, so I did not check any Pontiacs as I don't think they are the same, are they?