'64 Parisienne CS "barn find" - last on the road in '86 ... Owner Protection Plan booklet, original paint, original near-mint aqua interior, original aqua GM floor mats, original 283, factory posi, and original rust.
Very interesting indeed. I am shocked at the survey results though. I voted TRIBUTE CAR as described in the article since that seems to me to be the most honest and starightforward way to rcognize a rare classic that can not be saved. Seems like most others have no trouble transferring VINs.
very good reading... I think the key is documentation.. A car without proof of body condition history, should be priced accordingly..I vote for the Tribute car as well
Section 4-107 A - Trim Tag Plates - Intentionally Destroying, Removing, Altering, Covering - Counterfeits
A. It shall be unlawful for any person to:
1. Knowingly and intentionally destroy, remove, cover, alter or deface, or cause to be destroyed, covered, removed, altered or defaced the trim tag plate of a motor vehicle manufactured from 1953 to 1977;
2. Knowingly affix a counterfeit trim tag plate to a motor vehicle;
3. Manufacture, offer for sale, sell, introduce, import or deliver for sale or use in this state a counterfeit trim tag plate; or
4. Offer for sale, sell, introduce, import or deliver for sale or use in this state a trim tag plate that was affixed to a motor vehicle at the time of manufacture but has since been removed or become dislodged.
B. Paragraph 1 of subsection A of this section shall not apply to:
1. Any person who engages in repair of a motor vehicle, provided that removal of the vehicle's trim tag plate is reasonably necessary for repair of a part of the vehicle to which the trim tag plate is affixed, and provided that such trim tag plate is not intentionally destroyed, altered or defaced; or
2. Removal of a trim tag from a motor vehicle which is being junked or otherwise destroyed, if the removal is being done for historical documentation purposes by a person actively involved in judging events or for historical documentation of classic motor vehicles and reasonable precaution is taken to ensure that the tag is not sold or affixed to another motor vehicle.
C. Any person convicted of violating the provisions of this act shall be guilty of a misdemeanor. Any person convicted of violating the provisions of this act a second or subsequent time shall be guilty of a felony.
D. In addition to any other civil remedy available, a person defrauded as a result of a violation of this act may bring a civil action against any person who knowingly violated this act regardless of whether that person has been convicted of a violation of this act. A person defrauded as a result of a violation of this act may recover treble their actual compensatory damages. In any action brought pursuant to this subsection, the court may award reasonable costs, including costs of expert witnesses, and attorney fees to the prevailing party.
E. As used in this section:
1. "Trim tag plate" means a plate or tag affixed to a motor vehicle by the manufacturer which displays numbers, symbols, or codes that identify characteristics of the vehicle including, but not limited to, date of manufacture, body style, paint color, engine option, transmission option, trim option, general option, interior option, and interior color;
2. "Counterfeit trim tag plate" means:
a. any trim tag plate manufactured by a person or entity other than the original manufacturer of a motor vehicle upon which the trim tag plate is designed to be affixed, unless the trim tag has been permanently stamped, in the same manner as other information on the trim tag, with the words "REPLACEMENT TAG" in letters measuring at least one-eighth (1/8) of an inch in height, or
b. any trim tag plate which has been altered from its original manufactured condition so as to change any of its numbers, symbols, or codes; and
3. "Motor vehicle" means the same as defined in Section 1-134 of Title 47 of the Oklahoma Statutes
If you can get past the basic human instinct of "mine's better than yours" it's all a bunch of metal that came out of a factory 40 years ago. 3/4's of the "numbers" cars out there have some parts they were not born with and plenty have re-stamped blocks.
Now fraud and mis-representation are a completely different story. Unfortunately we cannot control the criminal element.
Bottom line.... if you're a car guy build what you want and enjoy it. I have both clones and a numbers car. I drive the clones while the numbers car sits in a barn awaiting "someday".
As great as this forum is I always have to laugh at the first post after a 68 SD is mentioned... "Is it real".
If you're rich and you can play the numbers/one of XX game then more power to ya. I'll be happy cruising in my fake 67 ss427 Chevelle rag (don't check the numbers, the block is a 427 from a full size ponch). or my fake 68 Acadian SS (the emblems are real).
I was a kid once and could't affford a "real" ss... so I put "real" emblems on my Nova... and it was all downhill after that.
Gary
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72 Nova SS - Minitubbed 70 Nova SS - #'s L-78 Bench Stick 68 Acadian SS clone - factory air 67 Chevelle rag - SS 427 clone
Good post Fake68. To me a GTO starts on the line as a Tempest, a Chevelle SS as a Deluxe. Forty years have passed now and you can't buy those cars so I see nothing wrong with building one if you want one, that's exactly what the General did when the Tempest morphed into a GTO. Just don't lie about it.
I said it before here and I say it agian, Pontiac committed the biggest automotive fraud of the century when they dropped a NASCAR preped 421 into a GTO optioned Tempest and passed it off as 389 to the automotive press laying down incredible acceleration numbers that even the Ferrari GTO, the car they stole the name from couldn't match. We all laugh about these lies today and write them off as marketing, but Pontiac defrauded the automotive buying public and made billions from those lies and no one seems to mind. Anyone watch Mad Men ?
Carl 2, I see your lol after your comment and we all love the GTO no question, but we collectively seem to have a double standard when it comes to clones and rebodies and what not which many find repulsive yet turn a blind eye to this factual marketing deception that made billions for GM.
Fake68 refers to fraud and misrepresentaion as being acts of criminals yet this is exactly what was done for the sake of huge profits. It is ashame in my opinion that the people who masterminded it are revered as automotive cons. Not the sort of lessons I teach my children anyway.
these bunch of bureaucrats that came up with this set of laws wouldn't know what a trim tag or V.I.N. tag was if it fell on their head !
I have never retagged a car body but I have also never replaced floors/quarters/doors/fenders/trunk/hood on the same car !
I cloned a 68 SS396 once-took everything from a real car that was too far rotted in my opinion at the time-I changed tail panel everything, but not the tags and it had a small block auto instead of the big block 4-speed-I did install the clutch pedals and floor console. two owners later after a guy bought it from a local licensed Ontario dealer UCDA and OMVIC approved sold it to him-I caught a conversation at a cruise night where the guy wished he could find the original engine-I told him I used to own the car and it was at home in my garage pick it up $100 cash 250 inline six-the guy was convinced I was full of it because the dealer assured him it was a real SS396-guess he didn't know about the 738 vin of SS cars-he got burned ! but still asked me what happened to the tags and ownership from the real SS396 so he could attached them to the car ! he'd burn the next guy even more if he could !
In short if you don't have a super low mile one owner suvivor quality car-what do the numbers really mean ?
Corvette guys started all this years ago shopping all around every swap meet to gather all the correct parts putting together their "original" numbers matching car !
"Corvette guys started all this years ago shopping all around every swap meet to gather all the correct parts putting together their "original" numbers matching car !" How true! Why not do as in the old days and when selling the car put in the ad ie: " car has SS 396 trim and options added"
My 64 "GTO" convert I sold 2 years ago had almost every conceivable option. Tripower, 4 speed, posi, power antenna, windows, trunk, steering, brakes, tinted glass, tilt, tach and gauges, am/fm, wood wheel etc etc etc. The body was a beautiful very solid original as well as the same with the frame.
Think what that car is worth. Only thing is, the cowl tag and VIN tag still show it's true roots. It's a 64 Tempest Custom 6 cylinder 3 speed manual column shift car with NO options. I left it that way on purpose and I know the buyer has NO intention of trying to pass it off as anything else. I would be mad if someone shafted me in that way, and would not do that to someone else.
With that said, ALWAYS do your homework because not all people selling cars will sacrifice profit in lieu of morals, if you know what I'm trying to say.
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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles
1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars
Carl-great to hear your honesty-something like when I put together the 68SS396 15 years ago-Sorry but I'll have to bet someone is going to sell that car as a GTO-
I've had good high end cars that were very correct and #'s matching that the buyers never checked a single number on ! They seem to buy shiny paint and chrome. I had a 68 SD that nobody before me or after me ever checked to see it was a CE block-everyone advertises "numbers matching"
Your Tempest can be sold with its current title/tags and the buyer may think its a GTO or someone else may change the tags - but its going to be misrepresented sometime in the future.
I don't want this to turn into a religious thread, but I will say that the reason I didn't do the tag swap is plain and simple----the commandment in the Bible that says "Thou shalt not steal". I believe God left us those 10 rules for good reason.
The nice thing about that car is that there is a few ways to prove it's a fake even if the tags get changed. I think for the most part it will command enough money when it gets resold that the buyer will document it first and catch the fact that it's a clone.
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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles
1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars
