Was the M21 Muncie not built in 1970? Never asked him , didnt think of it
The photo of the Data Tag says M20 so that's what went in in at the factory. Of course in keeping with the car the dealer might have added it in the same way that the stripes and 1969 spoiler were added once it got to the dealer.
Roger, you are correct for the period 1963 through 1965, RPO M20 was used as the 4 speed code and the factory decided which trans to install based on rear axle ratios etc...
I did take some vids of " The Jury " but here is a quick one to see her in motion.. And how she sounds... This car only has 53,000 miles on the origonal engine.. Amazing!!!
M20 AS STATED ABOVE IS THE CODE FOR 4 SPEED. I HAVE HAD A LOT OF 4SPD. '78-'80 MALIBU'S, MONTES, ECT. OVER THE YEARS AND THEY ALL HAD M20 ON THE DATA TAGS. IT LEADS A LOT OF PEOPLE TO BELIEVE THAT THEY WERE MUNCIES, THEY WERE NOT, THEY WERE ALL SAGINAWS IN THOSE YEARS ('78-'80). BUT, TRY EXPLAINING THAT TO A GUY WHO THINKS HIS '79 MALIBU HAS A FACTORY MUNCIE TRANS...LOL!
On the Nova site someone posted these Jury pics. One of the members there said "I call BS" so I had to come to the defense of a very unique Canadian Poncho.
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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles
1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars
Good job Carl, pretty hard to call BS when we all spoke with the original owner and saw and took pics of the original bill of sale with his name on it also showing he purchased "The Jury" package! Not sure you can get more proof than that!!
Good job Carl, pretty hard to call BS when we all spoke with the original owner and saw and took pics of the original bill of sale with his name on it also showing he purchased "The Jury" package! Not sure you can get more proof than that!!
I'm sure most of us have seen the newspaper ads from when they were new as well. Hard to dispute that one!
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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles
1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars
would you say the stripe is a vinyl or painted ?? I would be assuming the car was repainted sometime in it's life...
I passed on a Jury 13 years ago when I bought my convertible Lemans..could only afford one or the other ...unfortunatly ..the Jury had been harvested for all the goodies ..and was just a shell....it's supposed to be around Saskatoon area still..being restored.
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later...rog
AADD supporting member !!
I'm a collector...not a builder!!Located in sunny central Saskatchewan at the lakehead!
Ya Rog , it was repainted and the owner said the decals have been painted on as the old stickers could not be saved and of course impossible to find so he had it paited exactly as they were originally
Ya Rog , it was repainted and the owner said the decals have been painted on as the old stickers could not be saved and of course impossible to find so he had it paited exactly as they were originally
And they were done pretty good.. But, now adays he could get a damaged one scanned and re done , I had a right fender Judge stripe scanned and flipped to be a left one for a buddy once, because he did not want to buy a whole kit.
No doubt the 350 was done as an insurance thing. I am surprised that being an Oshawa car it has the blue block Pontiac engine, but I suppose it may have been because of the 4-speed. There were disclaimers that stated that engine selection depended upon other equipment ordered. Also you could get a close ratio 4-speed with 3.90 rear gears as late as 1971 with the low compression 400 on any Lemans. The 350 & 400 Pontiacs differ internally, not externally so a physical bolt-up is a no brainer.
Pontiac stopped the 350 H.O. after 1969. There was no factory 4-barrel 350 Pontiac engine offered between 1970 through 1973. It was actually cheaper for Pontiac to make a 400 2-barrel than a 350 4-barrel.
By the time the 4th gen A-bodies were rolling off the lines (1978+ models) the Saginaw 4-speed was coded as RPO MM4. The Warner Super T-10 in Z28s & Firebirds with 400 V8s were coded RPO M21.
I have an old article in some defunct musclecar magazine from probably 20 years ago that covered the Canadian-made "Jury". It stated that the single exhaust 350 2-barrel was used, as well as a close ratio M21 & 3.90 Safe T Track rear. Unfortunately I do not have easy access to the magazine right now. I think that normally a 350 2-barrel would have used a Saginaw M20, so the steep gearing & M21 (quite possibly Warner Super T10 rather than a Muncie) would have ensured the rest of the drivetrain was tough. I have a 1971 picture of a new Pontiac V8 with a Super T10 ready for the assembly line drop, plus my neighbor's untouched 1972 Lemans GT with 400 & 4-speed had a Super T10.
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67 Chevelle Malibu Sport Coupe, Oshawa-built 250 PG never disturbed.
In garage, 296 cid inline six & TH350...
Cam, Toronto.
I don't judge a man by how far he's fallen, but by how far back he bounces - Patton
I am surprised that being an Oshawa car it has the blue block Pontiac engine, but I suppose it may have been because of the 4-speed.
I have an old article in some defunct musclecar magazine from probably 20 years ago that covered the Canadian-made "Jury". It stated that the single exhaust 350 2-barrel was used, as well as a close ratio M21 & 3.90 Safe T Track rear. Unfortunately I do not have easy access to the magazine right now. I think that normally a 350 2-barrel would have used a Saginaw M20, so the steep gearing & M21 (quite possibly Warner Super T10 rather than a Muncie) would have ensured the rest of the drivetrain was tough. I have a 1971 picture of a new Pontiac V8 with a Super T10 ready for the assembly line drop, plus my neighbor's untouched 1972 Lemans GT with 400 & 4-speed had a Super T10.
Carl, have you been digging through my stuff? That is the very article I was referring to.
I see that I am a little hazy on the facts. The article states that the cars had wide ratio M20 4-speeds, and my reference the the single exhaust came from the picture, not the text. Still the L65 350 was a single exhaust engine, unless either N10 Dual Exhausts were ordered, or the car was a GT-37 and came with the GTO exhuast system. Most likely the single exhaust system issue would have been "fixed" by any self respecting gearhead by the first weekend. Back then it might have meant throwing everything from the Y-pipe back into the dumpster, then rigging Cherry Bombs or Thrush mufflers and terminating them right under the floorboards.
Pontiac did still offere a close-ratio 4-speed with the 400 as late as 1971 on the Lemans. The 455 H.O. also used a close ratio box for the 4-speed but it was an M22 Muncie. Perhaps the close ratio behind a 400 also would have been an M22. An original service manual, or a Features and Specs manual would tell the story more properly. Still, think of it, a small batch of cars done for 1 dealer. It almost sounds like a COPO. Given the 3.90 gearing behind the mild 350 in 1970, it may very well have been something like that.
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67 Chevelle Malibu Sport Coupe, Oshawa-built 250 PG never disturbed.
In garage, 296 cid inline six & TH350...
Cam, Toronto.
I don't judge a man by how far he's fallen, but by how far back he bounces - Patton
By the time the 4th gen A-bodies were rolling off the lines (1978+ models) the Saginaw 4-speed was coded as RPO MM4.
THAT CLEARS UP SOMETHING I ALWAYS WONDERED ABOUT, AS I POSTED ABOVE, THE DATA TAGS ON THE LATER A BODIES ('78-'80) HAD M20 STAMPED ON THEM, THE PAPERWORK FROM GEORGE AT V.V. ALL HAD M20, AND A COUPLE OF THEM LISTED MM4 AS WELL. I NEVER KNEW WHAT THE MM4 MEANT. I ALWAYS THOUGHT IT ODD THAT THERE WAS 2 TRANS. CODES LISTED ON ONE CAR. SO I GUESS THE M20 DESIGNATED THE CAR AS A 4SPD. AND THE MM4 WAS FOR THE SPECIFIC MAKE OF TRANS. TO BE INSTALLED.
Some of those guys are ..... can't read 
