If nobody replies sooner I can check tonight.

I'm curious , if the 15"x6" rallyes were optional for 69 , what did Pontiac use for a centre cap ( Chev had the derby cap )    

These are indeed rally wheels if that makes a difference (the car has that option also). So they're rally wheels with the wider tires, but do they use a wider rim or the same rim... I guess that's the question!

I don't suppose anyone has found another source or application for the "blank" center medallions, have they?  On my non-real 2+2 I have "discount" rally caps that are likely from China and look almost perfect, as they lack the Chevrolet scripting.  Close, but not exact.

-- Edited by davepl on Tuesday 7th of November 2017 08:49:30 PM

davepl wrote:

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These are indeed rally wheels if that makes a difference (the car has that option also). So they're rally wheels with the wider tires, but do they use a wider rim or the same rim... I guess that's the question!

I don't suppose anyone has found another source or application for the "blank" center medallions, have they?  On my non-real 2+2 I have "discount" rally caps that are likely from China and look almost perfect, as they lack the Chevrolet scripting.  Close, but not exact.

-- Edited by davepl on Tuesday 7th of November 2017 08:49:30 PM

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I thought Dale's Musclecar reproduced those, but I may be wrong.

Here is a question, were the pontiac wheels different than the ones going onto same year full size chevies? I suspect that the chevy 6" rim (14 or 15") had different backspacing or offset so that the Pontiac could be marketed as having a wider track even though it was just a Chevy.

davepl wrote:

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 so my conclusion is that my car should have "regular old rally wheels" even with the G70 redstripe tire option.

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       you are correct

CdnGMfan wrote:

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The factory wheel width for all 1968 through 1970 full-size Pontiacs were 6" wide whether 70-series tires or conventional 78-series (including the 8.25-14 tires). Yes they do seem skinny but that is what was factory.

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If the parts book is right, that is true for 14" but not for 15" where they list a 15x5 steel wheel for 69-70 full size Pontiac. Interesting, why ever would they put such a crazy sized rim on a big car like that?

Here's an original.

After I posted that I decided to look at the parts book to see if I could figure it out exactly why most are plain and some say Disc Brakes.

Found it easily, 67 Acadian, Beaumont and full size Canadian Pontiacs with Disc Brakes say that on the cap. 68 and up are plain.

They're not common.

I checked and it looks like 67 Acadian with disc brakes, 67-69 Beaumont with rally wheels and 67-70 2+2 (Canadian).

Carl Stevenson wrote:

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CdnGMfan wrote:

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The factory wheel width for all 1968 through 1970 full-size Pontiacs were 6" wide whether 70-series tires or conventional 78-series (including the 8.25-14 tires). Yes they do seem skinny but that is what was factory.

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If the parts book is right, that is true for 14" but not for 15" where they list a 15x5 steel wheel for 69-70 full size Pontiac. Interesting, why ever would they put such a crazy sized rim on a big car like that?

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 Well I'll be damned. I'm looking at the 1969 brochure right now and it list 14x6 as the base size wheel. Rally Wheels were 15x6 at that time. Wide Track was Pontiac's theme and 6" wheels were but one way to sort of claim it even on the Chevy frame. Looking at the sample page from a part catalogue posted by "409Safari" (thanks for that ) it shows a 15x5JJ size was listed as one type of wheel in 69-70, part # 3964071. That was an inexcusable regression and very much a surprise to me to offer such a skinny wheel after standardizing on a 6" width starting in '68. If it were just a Chevy, sure. For 1970 Chevy & Pontiac went up to 15" diameter wheels as standard on all. Dad's '70 Biscayne had 15x5 wheels with optional up-sized G78-15 tires.

I am looking at my 1970 Pontiac 750-760 Preliminary Parts Catalogue No. X702 right now. Indeed it does show the 15x5JJ wheel on non disk brake cars and is listed as "new parts - initial catalogue".

 

 

It looks like the 68-69 drum brake cars came standard with the 14x6 wheels but what I am reading is the 15x5JJ was an option (if I am reading it correctly) and carried into some of the 1970 models (depending on options). Then it shows that 15x6 may have been standard as witnessed by the 3972783 wheel on all. Confusing. Maybe it just means that it was offered on all except on Rally Wheel cars (like the 70 2+2) but was not necessarily standard. So now I cross reference with my 1970 Pontiac brochure and it shows 15x5 wheels standard on cars with the 250 six & 350 V8s, 15x6 on 400 & 454 cars. For reference, 1970 Big Chevies with 250 or 350 engines came standard with F78-15 tires (G78 on Impala & Caprice 350s) while 400 & 454 models came with H78-15 tires as base. The Pontiac brochure says the standard tires were F78 or G78-15 within a given model & series (six or V8 perhaps)

They don't allude to offering a skinnier 5" wheel on the 1969 Pontiacs when I look at my 1969 Preliminary New Product Information book for Pontiac, Beaumont, Acadian & GMC Truck. All it says is, "Wheel rim width increases and extended usage of the wide-base type tire, both in passenger car and truck applications, constitute major changes in  this area for 1969".

 

Are you dizzy with all this yet? I am.

 

 

In summary:

What I said about the 6" wide wheels being standard in 1969 was correct, but it was also possible with an optional skinny 15" tire and not too much engine (and only with drum brakes) to get a 15x5 wheel over a 14x6. They would have been unusual though, as most had drum brakes & 14x6 wheels (even 427 cars). 15x6 wheels were also optional (standard with disk brakes), plus all Rally Wheels were 15x6.

In 1970 the 14" diameter sizes were dropped and  they all came with 15" diameter wheels (some were 5" wide if running a six or 350 V8 with base tires); disk brake cars came with 15x6 wheels as did all wagons, as well as 400 & 454 cars. Of course the 15x6 Rally Wheels were standard on the 1970 2+2.

seventy2plus2 wrote:

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I'll have to check, but for some reason I think the original ralley wheels on my 70 2+2s were 15 x 5's. I've upgraded both to 15 x 7's.

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 The 15x5 Rally Wheels were used in 1967 and may have crept into the early 68s with disk brakes, but officially the 68-70 B bodies with Rally Wheels used the 15x6 size.

If you think yours were 15x5 because they looked too skinny, they were probably 15x6 because they also look too skinny. See the picture of the 1970 Chevy below:

I created that picture out of a Bel Air 4-door and I incorporated a picture of correct 15x6 Rallies into it. Incidentally I created that picture to duplicate exactly a car I saw in person in the early 70s in Hamilton. Similar to you ex Laurentian in concept.

 

 

I remember a nice clean original 1967 Impala SS coupe with a 327, TH400 & disk brakes in Dundas, Ontario back in 1974 through 1976 that ran 15x5 Rally Wheels. Man, they looked way skinny even with the flat 67 caps.

Shown below is a '67 Chevelle with 14x5 Rally Wheels. It is what you got in '67 if you ordered disk brakes with 7.35 or 7.75-14 tires. See how skinny they look? Those also were the only size Rally Wheel used on the 67 Chevy II & Acadian with disk brakes.