Beaumont67 wrote:

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Makes you sick? Really? You really must hate my LS swapped Beaumont then haha. It comes with the original drivetrain, if you wanted to, you could change it back to a grampa car if you want.

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 Just the fact that it was one of the few untouched original low mileage cars left out there, before this.   This was one of the few local Halifax cars that didn't end up as a cube of iron oxide, and it's just a little bit of a shame to see it changed as such.  I used to follow it a little as somehow I hoped I would get a second chance at it someday, but that's the way it goes.

What is a 'grampa' car anyhow?  Seems to me most of us left in the old car hobby are grampas anyway...  nobody who puts big blocks in cars nowadays use them for much more than impressing their buddies with a burnout when leaving cruise night, then putt all the way home and park it in the garage until next weekend.

Oh well, who cares, just venting a little.  His car, his money.  History is only important to those who care about it.  Kinda sorry I mentioned it.  Please ignore my comments and carry on as before.

Like said, could buy it, change it back to stock.....and recoup a good chunk of the price selling the big block.

As for the grampa stuff, I think I would prefer a smaller, more dependable older car these days too. Maybe not a six, but a 283/305 or the like. But, then I am a great grampa, so probably going a bit senile........lol

ashmore wrote:

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Nice ride. Yes it is an original paint survivor car. Probably could put the 6 banger back in if you so wish. It had about 38k on it when I sold it to Bill so I guess he didnt drive it a lot. Anyway car is for sale buy it and turn it into the car you want, thats what Bill and i dont see anything wrong with that.

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Isn't going to happen for me - no shop, work long hours so no time, not flush with cash either.  So I guess once you took this one to Ont. it was a goner for me anyhow.

Hopefully whomever buys it will have great fun with it doing whatever they want to do to it.  That's what the hobby is about.

It's a loss for us guys who care about the historical aspect of the hobby and a win for those guys who want to do with it whatever they want - because they own it.  Maybe it'll become a rat rod next - would look great with flat black paint and skulls...

After all, it's only cars, not really life changing stuff.

Carl Stevenson wrote:

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MC wrote:

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ashmore wrote:

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Exactly, and we tend to lose sight of what REALLY matters sometimes because we get so obsessed with the hobby. (And I'm pointing the finger at myself when I say that.)

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I'm actually not sure what I'm answering to as the comments have been deleted - I have to assume there was a negative response to what I wrote - but yes, I am absolutely guilty of sometimes placing too much importance on the old car the hobby - probably partially stemming from the frustration of wanting to participate in the hobby for many years but not being able to due to numerous circumstances.

I realize in retrospect that I should not have commented on this car, but to explain a little, the local car scene and Pontiac dealerships are at the root of my life long car obsession.  I've mentioned this before on this forum, but my car interest came about because my father was a car salesman at a local Pontiac dealership from the mid sixties to the early seventies, before the dealership switched over to Datsun (ugh) for a couple of years and then Plymouth/Chrysler in the early seventies.  I experienced many of these cars in my formative years when the cars were new - as a young kid being driven around in them, and can remember being so excited each time a new and different one came home that I could check out.  I can still recall the "new car smell", the details, the feel, the sound of these cars - all of which are a very different experience compared to new cars today.  I've told many who know me that my life as a car enthusiast was cemented when my dad took me for a drive in a new 1968 Firebird 400 with a 4-speed.  I hadn't known how glorious a ride in a car could be until hearing and feeling that car being wound through the gears - it was the coolest thing in the world to me at the time.

Without going into nauseating details, through all this exposure to the complete line of Canadian Pontiacs (and Acadians, and Beaumonts, etc.), all these cars had almost become part of my DNA - not just the performance versions.  Over the years I developed a deep appreciation for even the simplest, most stripped down versions of the cars.  Through my "hobby life" and my career, the appreciation developed to include looking at them from an cost/engineering standpoint, realizing that the more pedestrian of vehicles are actually the most important ones - they are the cars that people depend on, that have to do what they were made to do as well as possible on a budget that's not padded with profit from expensive add-on options.  They were the bread and butter that the company lived on, and that allowed them to produce the high-performance versions that most of us tend to lust over.  These are things you no longer see in the industry as it stands today - simple, low option cars, designed and built so that customers with limited funds could still drive a tough, dependable car that was sized large enough for a family and for comfort.  Just the basics were really needed, so no A/C, no power anything, and definitely no distracting touch-screen infotainment systems (luckily they hadn't been invented yet...). IMHO, all these aspects have become all the more special due to the passage of time and the shift of the industry.  Another configuration almost lost to the past - inline 6 cylinder engines - from a design viewpoint they can be completely dynamically balanced, which allows them to have a smoothness that can't be easily achieved in a V8, V6, or inline 4 (even with balance shafts and such).  (https://www.quora.com/Which-engine-configuration-is-more-balanced-V6-flat-6-or-straight-6-and-why)  That level of appreciation makes it difficult to see one pulled out and kicked off to the side so that yet another V8 can be put in.  Even the simplicity of the 2-speed powerglide is not experienced very much with today's proliferation of 8, 9, or 10-speed transmissions - or the infinite-ratio CVTs.  While often cursed for its lack of gear ratios, it's a window into the past of what was the norm for many drivers back in the day.

I'm dragging this out too much, I realize, so I will finish up by saying that seeing the ad for this vehicle affected me more than it would most old car people - it felt like a little bit of important (to me) history has been disrespected - an overreaction on my part for sure, and in the end I should have kept it to myself.  I realize that for most the hobby all about fun and ownership and being able to do with your car whatever you want - the essence of the hobby - and it's really none of my business what you do with your car.  Hot rod it, restore it, or leave it sit outside to rot - it's your choice and none of my or "our" business.  I also realize that the preservation of history - stewardship I suppose - appears to be a much smaller part of the hobby than it used to be.

On a personal note, along the lines of "what REALLY matters" in life, I have been dealing with the tragedy of a close family member's health decline through ALS - and received some more bad news yesterday, so I am realizing that the displaced stress of the situation can sometimes carry over in ways that you don't expect, even when discussing a hobby that is actually a means of escape from the nasty realities of life (ironic, isn't it).

So to anybody who may have been offended by my comments - please accept my humble apology.  Time for me to step back from the hobby and re-evaluate what it really means to me... and whether I should actually bother with it any more.  Yeah, deep stuff, but I will spare you all from it in the future.

Enough said.

You know MC, I totally hear you about messing with survivor cars. My '67 Chevelle has a quiet 250, points and a Powerglide (it's got that whine in Park) and I totally dig it. Manual steering & brakes without having a heavy engine to make it nose heavy, only skinny tires are needed and it is light except when stationary (you should never turn your wheels when stationary). I would never change it, though I was almost going to.  GM produced a ton of cars with that drive-train. With the passage of time the cars are either scrapped or turned into SS396s. When the time comes to sell, I'll bet the next owner scraps the original drive-train, brakes & steering, interior. Fewer and fewer survivors. It makes me a little sad.

I also love sleepers. I love Biscaynes & Strato Chiefs, and also police cars of many makes. COPOs, seemingly an over-used term today, are beautifully stripped-down hairy-chested go-fast pieces of art that, dare I say such a thing in today's climate, it takes a MAN to drive one of these monsters in original form. It may become more difficult for modern drivers of only modern cars to understand. In driving a '67, looking backward one can see the progression of the automobile leading up to the 67s.

As much as I would never have the heart to do it to a survivor, that '67 Beaumont sedan is a cool sleeper. That is some kind of intake cloaked under innocuous plain orange paint. I would save those seats & get some seat covers if it were to become a regular cruiser.

Good points above.  I want to be clear that I do like sleepers and modified cars, but believe that original survivor cars like this one should be left intact as historical articles and documented reference for other restorations.  How many original, unique Canadian-built cars like this are left?  The answer is not many.  But I've already made my views clear, and already understand the counterpoints to my views, so no reason to drag it out.

As for the added value this car (though IMHO no net value has been added if you figure in what has been lost), the details in the ad aren't many, but it does mention 12 bolt and disc brake conversion, along with 15" wheels and bias ply tires.  I should also ad that the $7000 price tag was in the ad from 2011.  It's likely that the price went up as it went through subsequent owners, but I can't speak to that.  In today's market I would expect that car to be more in the $8500 - $10,000 range, but admittedly it would take a buyer who was interested in preserving cars like this, and it appears that there are less and less of these types of enthusiasts out there now.  So purely on the merit of the added equipment, $5000 or $6000 doesn't seem unrealistic for a built BB, turbo 350, 12 bolt (and driveshaft, new U-joints, etc), mounts, disk brake conversion (and related suspension bushings etc, if they were done at the same time), new steel wheels and tires (not sure that skinny bias plies would be my tire of choice with a 454 built to be beaten - almost negates the benefits of having disc brakes IMHO). Not to mention that the original drivetrain is thrown into the deal (not that it will ever find its way back into the car). Also, I'm assuming that a certain measure of rebuilding or refurbishing of those parts was done before installation.  Additionally most sellers would want to pad the price a little to compensate for negotiation room...

Here are the details copied from the current ad in the event that this thread will still be viewed after the ad has disappeared.

1967 Beaumont, Chevelle, Survivor, Sleeper

Description

Survivor wrote:

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I like it alot! What are your thoughts on LS motors in a moredoor set up like this?

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 Me?  I don't mind it at all.  Would prefer it to not be on a minty fresh original paint low mile survivor car at all, but it's not my call.  Local car, local history that meant something to me personally, blah blah blah... No sense in going through that again...

There's a '61 Impala 4-door survivor looking car on kijiji with an LS in it.  Also looks like it might have been a low mile car but don't know the history.  It looks fine - not quite my taste in that I wouldn't do it to it, but not my car, not my money.