vin number look up

woodytwoshoes · Addicted!

vin number look up

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

On a 66, the first digit is the year. After that you will have 7XX which will be the model (Strato Chief, Laurentian, Parisienne, Grande Parisienne) followed by 2 digits which give the body style, followed by the letter O for Oshawa, after that the last 5 digits is the build sequence, the first one being 10001 I believe. (The first one might have been 10000, I'm not sure.)

Your VIN is likely 676437O followed by 5 digits, the first of those 5 digits being a 1, 2, or 3.

woodytwoshoes · Addicted!

thanks for that, its 676437B followed by 5 digits

norontcan · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

6 = 1966
764 = Parisienne 8 cyl
37 = 2 door hardtop
B = assembly plant =? ( most of us would have expected O for Oshawa or M for Ste Therese ) interestingly enough the parts book does show than it can be a B but doesn't give an explanation

If this was a US car the B would be for Baltimore.

Best to get the GMVVS documents for this one.

norontcan · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

Here's the page from the parts manual that explains the data plate and VIN plate.
It shows the plant for 65 and 66 to be O, B or M
O should be Oshawa and M is most probably Ste Therese but what is B?

65 Pontiac ID from parts manual.jpg

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

woodytwoshoes wrote:
thanks for that, its 676437B followed by 5 digits

By any chance did you take the VIN off a piece of paper (maybe it has a mistake) or did you verify it right off the VIN tag?

73SC · A Poncho Legend!

norontcan wrote:
Here's the page from the parts manual that explains the data plate and VIN plate.
It shows the plant for 65 and 66 to be O, B or M
O should be Oshawa and M is most probably Ste Therese but what is B?

Here's how I read this. The sample VIN plate is for 1965 and in 1965 only Oshawa existed. The sample is further labeled 1965-66.

The information below in parenthesis is telling us how the VIN appears in 1966 because it shows that the 5 in the sample would be a 6 for 1966. It follows then that the O changes to a B or M in 1966 depending on the factory as shown in the parenthesis. When Ste.Therese came on line in 1966 then the 1966 plants would be a B or M but not an O. Then in 1967 the plants got sorted out to be a 1 for Oshawa and a 2 for Ste. Therese the more accepted identification system.

I'd say B= Oshawa and M = Ste. Therese in 1966

-- Edited by 73SC on Thursday 4th of February 2021 09:51:56 PM

cdnpont · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

Well, it looks like the designation "B" was also used in 1965.

Perhaps the late production Oshawa cars got the B, even though B became all 66.

I think my 65 is fairly late being July the 28th. When would production have stopped?

6 5.JPG

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

73SC wrote:

I'd say B= Oshawa and M = Ste. Therese in 1966

-- Edited by 73SC on Thursday 4th of February 2021 09:51:56 PM

So are you saying you think they used either the letter O or the letter B to indicate Oshawa in 66?

norontcan · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

My 65 CS was manufactured on May 4th of 65 and is an O for Oshawa and verified on the GMVVS sheet.

I'm a little surprised that they would use a B in Canada as it was already in use state side indicating Baltimore manufacture. Interesting that the corresponding sheet from the Acadian and Beaumont manuals has a similar diagram but only the plant O is indicated.

Now here's a real wild idea. Might there have been labour unrest in Canada in the summer and early fall of 65 and some production came out of Baltimore. Or with Pontiac being the best selling brand in Canada in 1965 did they have to move some production to Baltimore to keep up with demand?

Can someone access the old registry and see what letters are on the 65 and 66 entries. It might give a time frame.

Also can all 65 and 66 owners speak up with their date of manufacture and code used. if you have the GMVVS sheet please also indicate that.

73SC · A Poncho Legend!

I went mining and found that there are a number of instances where GM used the same code for different plants, here's what I found that is germaine to this thread:

B Baltimore MD

B Lansing MI - Craft Centre

M Lansing MI - Lansing Car and Chassis

O Oshawa ON

1 Wentzville MO

2 Moraine OH

1 Oshawa ON

2 Ste. Therese QC

Nowhere do we Find B or M as Canadian operations however we also know that O, 1 and 2 are often ignored on many US lists of prodction facilities. We already know that the Acadian was built in Willow Run Mi. Baltimore was a Chevrolet factory but did have the flexibility to build other makes and from time to time did, While Lansing was an Oldsmobile factory and seems unlikley to be able to switch to a Chevrolet based Pontiac. M could mean Montreal = Ste. Therese but this code does not come up anywhere with a Canadain plant.

I accessed the old registry and while data is inconsitently recorded Code B does come up very often throughout both 1965 and 1966 models, I never saw M. Only two 1966 cars show Ste. Therese as place of manufacture but do not have a letter code.

I'm having a hard time imagining 1965 and 1966 Canadian Pontiacs being built in Baltimore. Any Canadian 65 or 66 Chevys out there we can compare?

Lots of questions that need researched.

-- Edited by 73SC on Friday 5th of February 2021 01:34:52 AM

67Poncho · Uber Guru

There is only one way to find out where the "B" fits in. Send for docs. Back in my high volume, no sleep until I get them all, data tag hunting days, there were many 1965 and 1966 B tags that I captured. We did have a discussion at that time but nothing materialized on the subject.

Fred did have 2 St. Therese built cars under the "P" designation, though.

Unknown no date      75669     V8        3H    (508 fawn)   ontario link
P00908  St.Therese Laurentian 4dr      Laurel Mist met.

Unknown no date     75369     6 cyl       3F    ( 840 blue) ontario
P10875  St.Therese Strato chief 4 dr     Marina blue

Here is the first '65 B tag found. (05/17/'09)

Nov.5th 1964 B76469 V8 V (248 fawn) Sask. link
#708590 Parisienne 4dr Cameo Beige spotted 67poncho

Here is the first '66 B tag found. (04/18/'09)

Sept.15th 1965 B75569 6 cyl 2D (506 blue) spotted by 67poncho
#700780 Laurentian 4 dr Mist blue met. saskatchewan link

-- Edited by 67Poncho on Friday 5th of February 2021 08:24:24 AM

73SC · A Poncho Legend!

Pre-1981 plant codes (North America)

A Atlanta, Georgia (Lakewood)
B Baltimore, Maryland
C South Gate, California
D Doraville, Georgia
E Linden, New Jersey
F Flint, Michigan (Chevrolet)
G Framingham, Massachusetts
H Flint, Michigan (Buick)
J Janesville, Wisconsin
K Kansas City, Missouri (Leeds)
L Los Angeles, California (Van Nuys)
M Lansing, Michigan
N Norwood, Ohio
O Oakland, California
P Pontiac, Michigan (Pontiac)
Q Detroit, Michigan (Cadillac/Clark Street)
R Arlington, Texas
S St. Louis, Missouri
T Tarrytown, New York
U Lordstown, Ohio
V Pontiac, Michigan (GMC)
W Ypsilanti, Michigan (Willow Run)
X Fairfax, Kansas
Y Wilmington, Delaware
Z Fremont, California
1 Oshawa, Ontario
2 Oshawa, Ontario (Truck)
3 Ste. Therese, Quebec
4 Scarborough, Ontario
6 Oklahoma City, Oklahoma

So here's a list I found on line. Looking at this none of the codes O, B, M, or even P make sense so I think we have to accept that the codes for Canada are undocumented. We have evidence of B being used in 1964 through 1966 builds. Another bit of research I turned up today is that Oshawa actually had three distinct production lines. I am willing to accept that these B and M code cars were built in Canada, the only thing to zero in on is where each location was. We need help from owners to get the GMVVS documents for such cars.

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norontcan · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

Love a mystery especially during these lockdown times.
Lets keep after this one.

While I posted the sheet from the B body Pontiac book ( 1958 to 1969 ) that showed the B and M I also find the exact same sheet in the 1965 to 1976 Pontiac parts book.
A check of the other Cdn GM books...Buick ( 65 thru 76 ), Olds ( 65 thru 76 ), Acadian ( 62 thru 69 ), Beaumont ( 64 thru 69 ), Chevy 11 ( 62 thru 67 ), Chevelle ( 62 thru 67 ) and full size Chev ( 58 thru 69 ) yields no indication that the B and M were used on the other brands.

cdnpont · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

I wonder if there is any way to communicate directly with Mr. George Zapora? I bet he'd know.

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

905-440-7697 is GM Vintage. It's been a few years but I know it used to be you could call and talk directly to him.

73SC · A Poncho Legend!

4SPEED427 wrote:
905-440-7697 is GM Vintage. It's been a few years but I know it used to be you could call and talk directly to him.

I think it's been about three years now that George passed the torch. His user name here was vintagegz, that may be a way to contact him as well.

65 SD L79 · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

73SC wrote:
4SPEED427 wrote:
905-440-7697 is GM Vintage. It's been a few years but I know it used to be you could call and talk directly to him.
I think it's been about three years now that George passed the torch. His user name here was vintagegz, that may be a way to contact him as well.

not sure if George is full time part time or just happen to be there and picked up the phone but I did talk to him in December

woodytwoshoes · Addicted!

wow, im impressed with the knowledge here! Thank you all so much. This place is beginning to feel like home! I just hope i don't become a pest during the build/restoration of my car but i know i will have a lot of questions as i have been out of touch with my old profession for years. I hope to get her in the new leanto tomorrow or Monday and will take some pics for here.
Thanks again,
woody

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

There better not be anybody here that leaves you with the impression that you're being a pest. The forum is here exactly for questions and learning. There's not one person here who hasn't learned from someone else here.

norontcan · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

By all means ask away. That's how we all benefit by helping each other.