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Canadian Poncho Homepage -> Canadian Poncho -> 65-70 Full Size Power Train Tech Forum -> BI-STARTER QUESTIONS
Post Info TOPIC: BI-STARTER QUESTIONS
427carl


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BI-STARTER QUESTIONS
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1. My starter with bolts across from each other doesnt fit.. 2. my starter with bolts beside each other doesnt fit.. MY close friend ,Peter said to get GM 1876552 starter for $131.00-- He also said, he uses a mini starter.. On e-bay $60.00-105.00 plus shipping, plus UPS duties..   Car quest has a AC Delco 97- 454 truck mini starter with limited lifetime warranty for $174.00 or non AC Delco for 159.00..  I used one of the generic ones on my Sunbird,and it works mint 3 years later.. Carquest let me try one, and it fits..   You guys have any experience with bi furious or multi brand starters?  lol

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4SPEED427


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Ok, let's see if we can sort this out. 427 block? Block is drilled for both style of starter noses (diagonal bolt holes, or straight across bolt holes?) How many teeth on the flywheel? Do both style starters bolt up? If so, do they bolt up but the ring gear doesn't reach the flywheel?

-- Edited by Carl Stevenson at 23:39, 2008-02-20

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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles 

1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars (now converted to a "factory" 4 speed)
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427carl


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THE STARTER THAT WAS ON CAR, BOLTED UP WITH DIAGONAL BOLTS.The auto trans had no restriction for any style of starter.. the clutch is 11inch and flywheel 168  The AC delco fits fine.. I was just wondering ,if I want to use that style?  It has a lifetime warranty.  or use a mini style, that is more common w/ warranty..        Price here is close 159 vs 174

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4SPEED427


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RE: BI-STARTER QUESTIONS
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Oh, ok. I misunderstood you. I thought you meant that you couldn't find one that would fit. Yes, the diagonal that was on there should be fine with the 11" 168 tooth, as you say.

Personally, I have always liked stock Delco starters. Easy to fix if needed, cheap to buy. I am not one of the mini-starter guys. Not that I have ever heard any negative about them either.

The new Delco smaller starters like the 97 pickups (I drive exactly that) have not been quite as reliable as the old Delco big starters if that makes a difference. We have put on a number of them here at the dealership.

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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles 

1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars (now converted to a "factory" 4 speed)
427carl


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The diagonal one that was on, with auto trans  diagonal bolts WONT FIT  WONT FIT..      There are the side by side and diagonal bolt on,                 BUT BUT there are different nose cones in each! ...  the mini FITS with diagonal bolt on BECAUSE the nose cone is DIFFERENT...      i checked with carquest and they have 3 numbers for OLD style HD starter --- 336-1836, and 323-254, and 336-1849   they have no idea what nose cones look like...?



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4SPEED427


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Strange, I was always under the impression that a diagonal bolt nose would fit the 168 flywheel. What part is wrong? Is it hitting the bellhousing somewhere, or does the gear not mesh on the ring gear?

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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles 

1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars (now converted to a "factory" 4 speed)
4SPEED427


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Sorry, I re-read your post and realize the nose won't fit. Hmmmmmmmmmm....

I will do some homework on those if I get a chance here.

I bet you need the cast iron nose, diagonal bolt. Sold my last one to my neighbour last fall for his 396 Beaumont.

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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles 

1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars (now converted to a "factory" 4 speed)
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2drpost


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i believe the diagonal starter fits the 153 tooth and the straight across fits 168 tooth flywheels.
i used a '98 5.7 tahoe starter on my 454. it's a mini gear reduction delco.
the older style noses wouldn't fit into the scattershield.
dave.

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427carl


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I tried the delco mini on, and it fits.. I ordered another #1876552 and it bolts to bell housing..   If it worked on your Tahoe, and my 355 Sunbird, and it has warrany for long time--thats the way, to go.. My GM parts friend in NB, says that there are variations, of the across and diagonal noses.. I thought there were only 2 ,and that diagonal off my car should fit ,but it wont go in all the way, because of header..BUT man o man are those mini's nice to lift in place!!! .I am still waitng for clutch fork from U.S..  YOU ARE "VERY CORRECT" AS TO THE FIT..   I am still amazed that all the Forks I sought on line are generic... I told my parts man today in Clinton, I am going to takes both forks to him, and show him.. He is insisting that his book says they are all the same and thats the TRUTH  LOL    Today I cut out the floor! didnt know how much space I needed, so I cut out all the tunnel...this is fun...C2

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2drpost


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just like you used to tell a girl anything to get in her pants,
some vendors will tell you it fits, to get into your wallet.  blahblah.gif

dave.

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427carl


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YOU ARE SO RIGHT!  and so smart smile    thanks! Carl 2

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4SPEED427


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I have a lot of gray hair, so maybe the memory is gone, but my recollection of the cast iron nose starters is they were all diagonal pattern, and always came with the 11" flywheel (should be 168 tooth) or turbo 400 (also 168 tooth flywheel).

That is why I just can't understand it not fitting. But, with that said, I have quit saying never. Got tired of eating a whole bunch of "nevers" when I was wrong.

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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles 

1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars (now converted to a "factory" 4 speed)
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2drpost


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thanks carl,  thumbsup.gif
my hair must be even greyer than yours. my error, reading.gif
diagonal bolts for 168 tooth.
straight across bolts for 153 tooth.

did you get this, carl2?

i'll be in the corner if anyone's looking for me...............
dave.

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4SPEED427


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LOL, not looking to put anyone in a corner!!! I learned a while ago that whatever I think is true in car parts I must not think is etched in stone. I've eaten way too many "nevers" in my life...

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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles 

1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars (now converted to a "factory" 4 speed)
427carl


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69 belair wrote:

thanks carl,  thumbsup.gif
my hair must be even greyer than yours. my error, reading.gif
diagonal bolts for 168 tooth.
straight across bolts for 153 tooth.

did you get this, carl2?

i'll be in the corner if anyone's looking for me...............
dave.


        YOU are correct, and Carl1 is correct..  BUT there is a difference in the nose..iron nose fits 4 speed.   aluminum nose is  auto..My starter is alum. I found a reference to this on Chev---e site.. They mentioned  3560 FOR 4 speed  and 3510 for auto.  I found a USA industries # 3560, but I can't cross it to AC delco...cry



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2drpost


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Carl Stevenson wrote:

LOL, not looking to put anyone in a corner!!! I learned a while ago that whatever I think is true in car parts I must not think is etched in stone. I've eaten way too many "nevers" in my life...


carl1,
i know the 6 cylinders always used the small flywheel and their bolts are 1 long/1 very short, straight across. i think i had a chevy2 on my mind....
dave.



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2drpost


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carl2,
i used an ac delco #336-1910 starter.
dave.

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427carl


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I just took a 336-1910 off and put in box with receipt  (10 minutes ago)    I used one like it, on my Sunbird with HEI.. but Ratochief haS accel dual points and  i though of going back to large size  3 wire starter?  with iron nose on it?

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427carl


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Got a AC DELCO 336-1870 starter today..  iron nose, and solinoid tilts closer to block, away from headers.. Is replacement for 67-69 396 Camaro MT       GM 19136179..  Of course it takes 2 shorter bolts  Guess i have to wait another couple weeks, to find bolts with knurl.. Now I remeMber why, I liked new carS... I just had to wash them.. Oh well, I am still waitng for clutch fork from U.S.   I bought shifter handle from Hubbards 3 days,and it was here. The fork took 3 days to get from the order desk to shipping at Ecklers  6 days and no part..  so If I find oe gm bolts on line it will take 2 weeks  why dont people in Canada, sell on line,...

-- Edited by 427carl at 18:37, 2008-02-25

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4SPEED427


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Carl

Do you have a GM dealer in town? You need 3733289. Still available to any GM dealer in a day. You should have no problem getting them overnight.


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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles 

1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars (now converted to a "factory" 4 speed)
427carl


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Thank you!   brother..    that the cheese, I needed for my whine..biggrin

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4SPEED427


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LOL. Carl, you know to ask me for GM part numbers if you need them. Do I have to come there and smack you one so that you remember?

Just to make sure, the parts book says that bolt is 3 5/8" long. I'm sure it's the right number, because the other one listed is about 4 5/8", and that would be the long bolt with the long/short combination on the other nose.

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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles 

1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars (now converted to a "factory" 4 speed)
Nov 18 to Dec 2 Black Friday UP TO 50% OFF Plus Huge Coupons
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427carl


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mine was the diagonal longer over 4 inches. The side by side, I believe is long /short..  My two closest GM dealers,are not places I want to really go.. I will drice to Man. and get them and a fish..the ones I need are approx 3.5

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427carl


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thanks again  smile

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