What do your Ownerships say ?

73SC · A Poncho Legend!

What do your Ownerships say ?

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

It's a Pontiac Acadian in Manitoba.

(Hope that's ok that I put in my Acadian in the Beaumont thread!)

I'm pretty sure the Beaumonts are Pontiacs here also.

-- Edited by Carl Stevenson at 23:09, 2008-03-21

73SC · A Poncho Legend!

Carl Stevenson wrote:

(Hope that's ok that I put in my Acadian in the Beaumont thread!)

-- Edited by Carl Stevenson at 23:09, 2008-03-21

For sure, it is really the same question to both Acadian and Beaumont owners.

Stephenzone · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

ontario ownership
make - ACAD
model- BEA
year - 63
Body type - 4W

slinky · Addicted!

Ontario Ownership
make- Pont.
Model- Acad.
Year-67

Make-Acad
Model-Beau.
Year-69

It was up to the Dealers who fill in the paper work what make or model they where
Some must felt there where pontiac and other where beaumonts

73SC · A Poncho Legend!

slinky wrote:

It was up to the Dealers who fill in the paper work what make or model they where
Some must felt there where pontiac and other where beaumonts

I have never seen the nameplate PONTIAC on an Acadian or Beaumont, while there is no doubt the styling changes made to differentiate them from Chevrolets were all Pontiac like.

da66 · Addicted!

Here in BC mine states
Pont
Beau
2Drhtp

67BBSD · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

I have had several beaumonts some said

make :chev
model Beau

some said

make: pont
model:beau

earlier ones I've seen

make:acad
model:beau

in reality its not a chev or pont

it should say

make : beaumont

model: sport deluxe or custom

so the most correct was the early one with

make : acad
model: beau

I've also seen

Make:pont
model: velle

clearly no standard in Ontario

ak 67sd · Poncho Master!

manitoba (in terms of auto insurance) used to say: 'chev-beaumont', now they changed to 'pontiac -beaumont' ...after consulting with several car clubs... i agree with 67bbsd, its not a pontiac or a chevy, and i've only learned that in more recent years, i used to call it a pontiac beaumont ...so it should be either 'beaumont-beaumont' or maybe 'GM-Beaumont'? or 'beaumont-with models being sedan, convert, custom, sd...

ak

Stephenzone · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

when did the beaumont cease being an acadian?

68 327 4spd · Poncho Master!

mine says make pont,model ell ont ownership

67BBSD · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

1966

Numbers_guy · Addicted!

The name Acadian was dropped from the Beaumont line in 1966 when it became a separate model on its own.   Before that Beaumont was the highest series of car in the Acadian line up.

This change was made to clarify the model structure for Canadian Pontiac and get the model series in line with their American model.   The first inklings of the Auto Pact agreement between Canada and the US. Think comparing "apples" with "apples" instead of "apples" and "apples and oranges" when comparing between Chevrolet and Pontiac in Canada.

For '64 and '65 the Acadian nameplate spanned two series of cars and started confusing people.   As the smaller Acadians (Invader, Canso and Canso SD) were similar cars to the Chevrolet Chevy II (H body platform). The Acadian Beaumonts (Beaumont, Beaumont Deluxe, Beaumont Custom, Beaumont SD) were similar cars to the Chevrolet Chevelle (A body platform).   Hence the change in names so each series was on the similar platform as its sister Chevrolet.

This made it easier to compare like vehicles and helped with the selling of cars. They look the same, have roughly the same features, now the salesman can sell on features and options.   Its all about the selling.

With the new model year in '66 and the Auto pact coming in to effect slowly.   GM of Canada made the decision to "split" the car lines up and the H body cars (Invader, Canso, Canso SD) stayed with the name Acadian.   The Beaumont series moved on with the Beaumont name.

Now then the last piece of the puzzle is this.   Although the cars never say on them that they are Pontiac they technically are Pontiacs.   Before you call get your pitch forks and boiling oil out let me finish.

Starting with the '65 model year all the Acadian series models start with the number seven.   The number seven is significant with GM of Canada and GM in general as the number seven donotes "Canadian Pontiac Division".

Here's how GM divisional numbering works

1 = Chevrolet Motor Divsion
2 = Pontiac Motor Divsion (United States)
3 = Oldsmobile Motor Division
4 = Buick Motor Division
5 = GMC Truck Divsion
6 = Cadilac Motor Division
7 = Pontiac GM of Canada (Canada)

Now here's the strange part again.   During the 60's GM of Canada also built Buicks and Oldmobiles in Ontario and later in Quebec.   Those cars were identical to their American cousins in every way.   Hence why there's only one divisional code for Chevrolet, Oldsmobile and Buick.

During the late forties the Chevrolet and Pontiac lines were somewhat merged in Canada and used the same frames, drivetrains and body sheet metal.   This was done to reduce costs and increase efficenies in manufacture. I'm not sure it may have even happened earlier than that.   Don't know that much about 30's and 40's Pontiacs to say one way or the other.

I believe because of that decision and that fact that Canadian Pontiacs weren't sold in the US. GM had to come up with a divisional code for those cars and
they did so.   Otherwise it would have cause chaos when ordering parts as the American Pontiacs are bigger, wider and use completely different sized everything. Imagine the headaches that could have caused.

Not saying this is gospel as stated by GM of Canada but I think its a relatively reasonable explanation for how things came about.   If anyone can shed any more light on the subject I'd be glad to hear and read about it.

73SC · A Poncho Legend!

Thanks Numbers guy. I started this thread. Certainly you are considered to be a reliable and authoritative voice of reason on this Board. If nothing else you have definitively explained why these cars are referred to as Pontiacs and why everybody in Canada knows what you are talking about when you say "Pontiac Beaumont". The manufacture's VIN identifying the car as a Pontiac is pretty compelling evidence. Also vindicates George Zapora's documents identifying the cars as Pontiacs given that is what the manufacturer's VIN says they are. He has no VIN for Beaumont. Not likely to end the debate but does shed quite a beam of light the topic.

-- Edited by 73SC at 23:01, 2008-04-14

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

What debate???

67BBSD · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

See that-doesn't matter how long I live-learn something new everyday. 7 Canadian Pontiac. Thanks for the educational information-always thought different.

Ken

Canadian Poncho · A Poncho Legend!

The 7 model code started in 1958. Things must have been confusing prior to that!
Todd

73SC · A Poncho Legend!

Thanks C1 for that comic relief:

"What debate???

"

To Todd's post, I understand that inside GM both US and Canada, Pontiac cars built by GM Canada were referred to as Series 7000.

-- Edited by 73SC at 11:24, 2008-04-15

Acadian Beaumont SD · Veteran Member

67BBSD wrote:

earlier ones I've seen

make:acad
model:beau

in reality its not a chev or pont

it should say

make : beaumont

model: sport deluxe or custom

so the most correct was the early one with

make : acad
model: beau

Thank you for your imput. I am glad there are still a few people who know what
they are talking about.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Carl wrote:
What debate?

It seems more like a railroad to me

Numbers_guy wrote:

Now then the last piece of the puzzle is this. Although the cars never say on them that they are Pontiac they technically are Pontiacs.

Not saying this is gospel as stated by GM of Canada but I think its a relatively reasonable explanation for how things came about. If anyone can shed any more light on the subject I'd be glad to hear and read about it.

Here what
Canso Dan
wrote

I talked to George Zappora years ago and after 15 minutes he says, "Well,... officially they weren't Pontiacs but we all know they were!" WTF???

I highly recommend the book "Canadian Cars 1946-1984" by R. Perry Zavitz all owners of Pontiacs, Beaumonts and Acadians and other canadian models like Mercury, Frontinac, Studebaker, Canadian Plymouths. This book can be sourced at your local library, they will get it in for you if they don't have it. Perry Zavitz wries books for Petersons and I believe he wrote a column in the Toronto area news (anyone know this for sure?).

This book has tons of info on the canadian pontiacs, all the good stuff like differences from the USA cars, engine options, even how many were registered per year (most models).

Dave, I know that you are very knowledgeable in many car facts but this time I will have to disagree with you.

Acadians and Beaumonts were unique in many ways. There was lots of proof this given in a previous debate. If they were meant to be "Pontiacs" they would have had Pontiac written somewhere on them. It is also important that there no mention of Pontiac in any the liturature either. Every car that was intened to be a Pontiac had the name Pontiac on it! Are Buicks and Vauxhall, Pontiacs? They were sold at Pontiac dealer.

I really change the fact that dealers and insurance people call Acadians "Pontiacs" today, that does not change what the original intent was. I get very disappointed when people try do away with such valueable Canadian history.

There are several known Acadian owners who will never become members of the Site as long as the current attitude continues and others will leave (I know, I have talked to them).

73SC · A Poncho Legend!

Henry, please go back and read what Numbers guy wrote. It is based on the fact that the cars were built by the Pontiac Division of GM Canada. That is a fact and I can't see how you can argue with that and threaten to leave and say there is an attitude on here because someone presents a fact. You don't happen to like that fact but it is a fact nonetheless. If an objective person looked at the VIN and had access to the codes the conclusion they would draw is that that car was built by Pontiac Divison of GM Canada.

I also think to a person we all value the the contributions of the Acadian and Beaumont owners on this forum and we all especially admire your cars. I think all Canadians are proud or our distinct Pontiacs, Acadians and Beaumonts, I know I am. There is always evidence to support each side of a debate but you can't just dismiss the side you don't agree with as rubish.

I find this entire discussion very historical and interesting and I also think our Canadian Pontiacs, Acadians and Beaumonts share a lot in common. I know there are plenty of owners out there who are proud to call their car a Pontiac Beaumont, just as much as you are not. The idea of a hobby is to bring enjoyment and unfortunately you are not enjoying this. Obviously you are passionate about your car's name as are others. You have a beautiful car and you are obviously very proud of it and we all can learn from your knowledge of your marque!

-- Edited by 73SC at 20:26, 2008-04-15

Acadian Beaumont SD · Veteran Member

73SC wrote:

say there is an attitude on here because someone presents a fact.

I was not talking about, Dave. I was talking about you. Now read what I said and what Dan said about his conversation with George.

Canso_Dan · Veteran Member

Some good points Dave but if Pontiac were to have started the "7" series in '65, what about the previous 3 years? What was the "8" series? Was it just a typo?

"quote"
Here's how GM divisional numbering works

1 = Chevrolet Motor Divsion
2 = Pontiac Motor Divsion (United States)
3 = Oldsmobile Motor Division
4 = Buick Motor Division
5 = GMC Truck Divsion
6 = Cadilac Motor Division
7 = Pontiac GM of Canada (Canada)
"/quote"

I posted this manual for sale:

Todd said that Pontiac started the use of the number 7 in 1958. My feeling is GM Canada created the Acadian as a seperate marque in '62. Who really knows why the series changes in '65? It could have been something as simple as the cars were destined to Pontiac dealerships.
73SC, you wrote "Henry, please go back and read what Numbers guy wrote. It is based on the fact that the cars were built by the Pontiac Division of GM Canada. " I didn't read that but my understanding is the Beaumont and Invader/Canso models were built at the Oshawa plant on the same line as the Chevelle and ChevyII ( a guy posted on Steve's Nova site that he worked in the plant back then and that is how it was). I thought Dave said the model series code was changed to line up with Pontiac Canada in '65 (good point Dave)... But I strongly disagree with Dave's statement that "they technically are Pontiacs" because I feel technically they weren't. I think there is a general misconception about this because they were sold at Pontiac dealers. GM Canada started Acadian production as a seperate marque in '62 and it never marketed either the nova based series or chevelle based series as Pontiacs up until half way through 1971 when the Acadian marque was dropped and the Pontiac Ventura II (based on the Nova) was imported to Canada.
Has any other Pontiac ever been sold that didn't have the Pontiac name on it? I can only think of GTO and I don't know if it had Pontiac on it's paperwork as I have never owned one. My old paperwork for my '65 Canso says Make: Acadian Model: Canso. The newer papework says Pontiac Acadian, the insurer has no listing for Acadian (when that changed, I don't know).
Good stuff though, I'll do more research on the "7" series. I'm not ready to burn my Canadian Cars or other information yet. Dan

-- Edited by Canso_Dan at 22:19, 2008-04-15

SD 396 · Poncho Master!

I am glad to see that people have opinions on this topic. Everyone is entitled to his or her own opinion, it's called democracy.
It's funny, when GM came up with the product name I am sure they did not count on this subject to be the center of a heated debate. Maybe they did and the joke's on us.
George must be in politics if he said this.
"They weren't Pontiacs but we all know they are."

This I can say without question.

Every car nut is passionate about their car. It doesn't matter what car it is.

Canso_Dan · Veteran Member

I'm passionate about my cars (actually, cars in general), but to be clear, I'm not "heated" in this debate. I want to hear other opinions and hopefully learn something (even if it's I don't agree with someone). The "7" designation Dave posted is interesting but opens up the question as to what was the reason for the "8" in the original 8000 series numbers early Acadian Invader, Canso and Beaumont had.
I posted some acadian information and early ads I have in another part of the site, ( here: http://canadianponcho.activeboard.com/index.spark?forumID=118110&p=3&topicID=16265781 ) .
Dan

-- Edited by Canso_Dan at 23:15, 2008-04-15

-- Edited by Canso_Dan at 23:16, 2008-04-15

-- Edited by Canso_Dan at 23:17, 2008-04-15

67BBSD · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

I just appraised a 1964 Pontiac GTO convertible-the V.I.N. starts with an 8. I know this has nothing to do with Canadian models, just added for the purpose of this debate or interesting information. It does say Pontiac on the tail panel-someone here wasn't sure.