Hi Dave, is the 'way to tell' some physical markings on the car or is it on the paperwork? so if you could order A51 and not have buckets, the bench SD you speak of was a 736 car? My question 'partially' was how do you know when looking at the production log which A51 meant 'sports option' and which A51 meant 'buckets'... is it build date specific or is there an 'asterix' somewhere? *edit, just read your post on the previous page, so it does seem to be build date specific, that is one reason i was asking about if any 'custom with buckets' were built during the 'sports option' production run...

The good advantage we have over our 'american made' counterparts is the existence of GM verification paperwork, so the concept of not letting cloners have access to that info isnt too much of a big deal, since anyone selling a canadian car will use the GM paperwork as verification, it enhances the cars value. American cars without available paperwork, and the years without 738 type vins (like a 69+ chevelle SS) are very susceptible to the cloners...

Cloners for those cars have to follow a very detailed set of differences, especially since they generally take an SBC car and try to fake a BBC car... the guys on Team Chevelle can generally shred any good fake, with only a few photos. The scary thing is that they are so good i think they can turn a real SS into a fake!!hahahaha!

andrew


-- Edited by ak 67sd at 12:31, 2008-06-20

Slink do you have other pics of the 69 SD? Did it have factory stripes? someone on team chevelle is looking for pics of one....

andrew

Ak 67SD et all,

Yes, Beaumont Customs with bucket seats were available during the Sports option package years of '66 and early '67 production.  The build date isn't the determining factor, its something else.   The build date is the yard stick to determine when the Sports Option package was discontinued.

Brad among a few others on this site, will atest to knowing some "key" information to determine "true factory" from the "cloned" or back yard built cars.   That's one of the reasons for this site, to have "knowledgeable people" you can go to to determine "true factory" from "clone".

I'm really not trying to be a pest about this, I'm trying to retain specific facts so we can keep the authenticity of "true factory cars" and weed out the "clones, tributes or recreations".  Call them what you will those cars will always be "wantabees" and not true contenders.

The more of them that get built the more they dilute the value and "muddy the facts" of what's factory true and what's been built since production stopped. 

I'm not a fan of these cars as you can tell.   I understand why people are building these cars, my problem comes down the road when they are being sold as the real deal.   While I don't own a Beaumont or a Pontiac car, I do own a "true factory 72 Chevelle SS.   So I'm in the same boat as any of you '66, early '67 or '69 Beaumont SD owners.   In my model year the SS package was an option on the Malibu coupe and convertible.

I believe it was Super Chevy magazine some ten years ago or so that stated "there are now more Chevrolet Super Sports in existence than Chevrolet ever built".   As long as Barret-Jackson keeps pushing "recreations" or "tribute" - you'll notice that Barret-Jackson never uses the words "clone or copy" when referring to these cars - the problem will still be there.

There can only be true originals all others are "fakes" or "copies".    Think of the authenticity of these cars in this light.    There is only one "Mona Lisa" and its value is deemed to be priceless, it has a high monetary value.

Now you can get "prints" or "copies" of the Mona Lisa while they look like the original they don't carry the same value.   If we "spill the beans" and publish everything we know about these cars, what happens to their value?  How can you tell the true from the false?  Do you guys want to pay top dollar for a car only to find out later it was just a normal model car?

Some one stated well at least GM of Canada can confirm the authenticity of our cars.   Well true, a clone can still be passed off as a real car.   A quick trip to PhotoShop and fake documentation is produced.    Also someone noted there are individuals and companies making VIN and cowl tag replacements.   

Add the new tags with proper information or "move the tags" from a true factory car that's been wrecked to a good donour and behold you have a "true factory car".    Is it really, well the numbers say it is.

Sorry I'm not trying to preach I'm trying to explain why some of this information is being "guarded" to stave off the problem seen in the old car hobby below the forty-ninth parallel.

I'm sure there's others at this site who know "key information" about the full size passengers cars (Grande Parisienne/Parisienne), intermediates (Beaumonts/LeMans) and sub-compacts (Acadian/Ventura) as well.  We didn't come by this information by chance, we spent a good deal of time looking at a lot of cars and documenting what we saw to get to this point.   then we cross referenced what we saw with other sources of information to confirm what we found.

We freely assist any and all owners in learning as much about their cars as possible.  Knowing information is one thing, passing it on is another.  My take on this subject is this, I use what I know to assist folks in attaining or documenting the car of their dreams.   Too know as much about that vehicle as possible.   I hate to see folks being taken spending a lot of money on a "wantabee".

You can tell by my marathon posts I spell out what mean and stand by it.  I leave no one wondering about my intentions, I'm up front with people and deal with them in an honest fashion.   My father always told me to deal with people the way you want to be dealt with and I stand by that philosophy.   That's the real deal.  When I'm wrong I freely admit it as I don't know everything.

I look forward to any and all comments.

ak 67sd wrote:

---

Not sure where you are coming from on this post Dave, I think that since documentation is available for canadian cars then protecting secret tell tale items doesnt have the same 'holy grail' factor as it does for american built cars where no documentation exists, and where VINs do not authenticate SS codes for example.

I do own own a real 67 SD Beaumont. My car has original interior, vinyl top and sheet metal. If there are secret codes, then great, because my car has them and it is indisputable.

Having the emblems available in reproduction may lead to more and more sd clones, especially since right now it would be harder to restore custom than clone an SD. Generally people should buy a car based on the quality of the workmanship they see, there are really only a few models that have an intrinsic value based on the model... like a BBC SD for example, some would argue if the original motor is gone then what made it rare in the first place is gone and value is lost... nonetheless that is up the purchaser to determine the selling price... changing VINs/fraud however is against the law, cloning/tributes etc are not...

Its been market supply and demand (and lack of factory documentation) that has caused more SS's to be built, and with the value of a real numbers matching SS these days, it makes sense to drive a clone. There are really good fake build sheets, trim tags etc. out there, but generally Canadian built cars are more marketable and 'defendable' since anyone can verify documentation. Cloning and tributes arguably increase the value of the real ones, it increases the appreciation of the real ones...

I am not trying to find out your 'trade secrets', I was more so 'wondering' how someone can look at the production log book, see the code A51 and tell if its just 'buckets' or a 'sports option' ...if there are other 'books' or codes at Georges disposal to make that determination then it makes the verification of our cars even more absolute and we dont have to look at rag joints, fuel line diameters, steering, and other 'signs' to verify a car...which are all interchangeable anyhow...

andrew

---

Very well put Andrew. You saved me a bunch of typing.

As long as we can document them, let everyone build all the clones they want. After they they put the screws in my coffin lid, they are welcome to say "Yeah, and his car was ONLY a clone" all they want, I don't care.

As a matter of fact, they can say it now. The only reason I am opposed to clones is because of the crooks, and in this case (Canadian cars) there is no point worrying about it.

 

Rick Pawlus' phone number is: 250-477-1773. He supplies the letters and info for supply/install of the stripes... he's on vancouver island i believe...

andrew