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Canadian Poncho Homepage -> Canadian Poncho -> 65-70 Full Size Power Train Tech Forum -> driveline question 65-70 B body
Post Info TOPIC: driveline question 65-70 B body
427carl


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driveline question 65-70 B body
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If a 350 turbo, and a Muncie 4 speed, are the same length, would it not be reasonable, to think the driveshaft out of either application ,would be the same.  I took out the driveshaft out (with the car sitting on its suspension) last winter .. Today the driveshaft wont go back in?  Did it stretch over the winter?    "I know" it was cold and now with the hot waether it expanded!!.. So if I wait until next winter, it should fit..  right?    weirdface



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4SPEED427


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Are you saying that the yoke is too big or too small in diameter?

By chance do you have a later Muncie with the TH400 style output shaft? I think the outputs went bigger for 71. It may be 70, but pretty sure all 71 to 74 Muncies have a bigger output.

Or did you have the TH350 shaft already pushed into the Muncie at one time and now it won't go?

-- Edited by Carl Stevenson at 21:54, 2008-06-14

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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles 

1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars (now converted to a "factory" 4 speed)
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427carl


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yoke slides in fine.    I pushed it in as far as it would go, and tried to put rear of driveshaft into place and its "seems" 1/2-3/4 inch too long.. I took out shaft with car sitting on suspension. If I jack up car, maybe I will have room? are their shorter yokes? C2

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gparis7


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I once swapped a 68 date code Muncie M21 with the fine spline output shaft for a Powerglide in a 68 Impala, and I used the PG driveshaft with no problems. The short case TH 350 is supposed to be almost exactly the same length with the same spline, as the PG and the Muncie.  I have a reference chart here somwhere listing the overall lengths for these transmissions - if I find it I'll post the dimensions here.

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427carl


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thanks   that would be great!

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4SPEED427


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So you had the shaft installed in the Muncie I take it?

Does the yoke go all the way in and bottom now? If so, is it just a matter of that tricky little 1/4 turn twist they sometimes take at the back to get them up into the diff yoke?

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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles 

1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars (now converted to a "factory" 4 speed)
gparis7


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Here is a link to a website that has all of the dimensions for GM auto transmissions.
http://www.teufert.net/trans/t-length.htm
I could not find any dimensions for the Muncie trans but I recollect that the length is the same as the PG short trans.
Here are some links for Muncie trans info
http://www.teufert.net/trans/muncie.htm
http://www3.sympatico.ca/atkinsom/
Also, as someone pointed out, the spline sizes changed in 71. Pre 71, the input was 10 splines and the output was 27. From 71 - 74 the input was 26, the output was 32. So the coarse spline was pre 71, fine spline from 71 on as best i can determine from my reference information.
http://www.teufert.net/trans/trannyinfo.htm
I have two of the early M21s, and a later M20 with the finer spline setup. The latter needs the T400 yoke to be used on an early car

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427carl


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Carl Stevenson wrote:

So you had the shaft installed in the Muncie I take it?

Does the yoke go all the way in and bottom now? If so, is it just a matter of that tricky little 1/4 turn twist they sometimes take at the back to get them up into the diff yoke?


        Yes I have the yoke in as far as it will go   maybe it does need a little twist.. It just seemed strange ,that its so close to going in.. I will jack up the body off the susp and see if it gives me the room.. or I will sell it  lolwink



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2drpost


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you didn't get a mouse or something inside the yoke, keeping it from going all the way in?

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427carl


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DUCK DUCK DUCK  GOOSE      i WILL LOOK TOMORROW... I am excited, cause I found the reason for no-go   I will keep at it this week  I need the room for my new car...

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427carl


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2 WEEKS LATER.  I got 5 minutes of ambition and tried drive shaft again.. Wont fit!  It slides in and I move it back 3/4 in and it is too long... I know I can throw money at it, and build a new driveshaft, BUT  I want to know why it wont fit ! Trans I took out was a 350 turbo 28 inches long-- Muncie is 28 inches long..I read on another forum that there are different yokes.  I looked up in GM parts, and it shows a yoke for ST and PG and a different one for Turbo.. same deal for driive shaft , there are two numbers.    My car had a PG and was converted to 350 in 1991. Maybe the turbo 350 yoke was/is different?   My retired life is so busy with moving children (2) and trying to renovate and sell 10 room house, I dont have time for messing with car..It has been sitting in garage for 2 years, and I need the garage for other uses, so its going into storage uptown... I am going to buy a turn key A/C car for the few times I wll get to a automotive event...so  whos got a yoke 2.75 inches long? C2

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427carl


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here is GM numbers

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4SPEED427


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So you are talking a yoke with useable length of 2.75", meaning the part that slides into the seal?

Also, are the u joints inside or outside snap rings?

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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles 

1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars (now converted to a "factory" 4 speed)
2drpost


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carl2,
can you post a picture of the yoke pushed as far as it will go into the muncie.
350 trans and m20/21 muncies use the same yoke.
if it fit the 350, it should fit the muncie.
possibly the internal speedo gear isn't in right position or splines inside the muncie tailstock are damaged.

-- Edited by 69 belair at 23:58, 2008-06-30

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4SPEED427


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Dave makes many good points. What if you try sliding something (like a center tube out of a roll of paper towel or something) that is the proper diameter, but not splined. Does it slide in farther?

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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles 

1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars (now converted to a "factory" 4 speed)
427carl


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This is the frustrating part, the yoke will slide in to its end.. The Muncie is totally rebuilt with EVERYTHING new inside... I will put it in the trans and take a picture.. As I said, I can find another shaft, or have one built, but cant understand why it wont fit...  I measured auto on the floor, and the Muncie and they are THE SAME LENGHT 28 inches    I'll be back to you...



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455gto


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Have you tried jacking up your frame,so the rear-end is hanging.That would be the longest lenght of travel???Just my 2 cents

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427carl


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That was my original thought and I did jack up (one) side   I will jack up both an see if that helps..  thanks for the reminder....its great to have friendsbiggrin

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427carl


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Got  better solution to my driveshaft problem!!!!!      Had a friend over looking for a motor. He wants to run a econo dragster, in Nostalgia class or just brackets.       He offered to buy my motor,as its able to make a dragster run 10.s    He has a friend looking for a old sedan to restore,and thought he could solve my problem.   After getting prices on floors,and paint and wallpaper, at my daughters "FOR SALE" house, I will be spending the next few weeks, doing the reno my self.. He offered $10,000.00 to solve my car problems. Since that is (more) than market value, I think I should let him drag it away..  If the gas scare continues, there will be lots of (running) Pontiacs for sale. Will decide this weekend..C2

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macsleuth


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will it be going to a good home?
Is that a convertible in the background?


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65 Catalina 2+2 421 4bbl,  Auto, White, w/red interior, Buckets w/column shift.

66 Grande Parisienne, 2dr HT, 327 4bbl, Auto.

Had the 66 since about 83 and the 65 since 88.
Both still require a lot of work.
427carl


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In the background is a 66 conv  It was in Moncton where Chief came from 396andy@rogers.com had it and was parting it out   Fellow who is interested in motor, has a friend wanting to make a rat/hot rod type car..  was talking of building one with Duramx diesel..  so it would not be a good homecry

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macsleuth


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Diesel?
Dang, not so good.

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65 Catalina 2+2 421 4bbl,  Auto, White, w/red interior, Buckets w/column shift.

66 Grande Parisienne, 2dr HT, 327 4bbl, Auto.

Had the 66 since about 83 and the 65 since 88.
Both still require a lot of work.
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