Can anyone identify this Pontiac?

davepl · Poncho Master!

Can anyone identify this Pontiac?

73SC · A Poncho Legend!

The GP emblem was more to the edge and white fill. The Grand Prix also had integrated parking lamps in the grille with vertical chrome bars. The 2+2 was definitely a red fill emblem so this is a 1965 2+2.

-- Edited by 73SC at 23:13, 2008-09-28

73SC · A Poncho Legend!

Just found two photos to confrim my post, what a memory.... biggrin

davepl · Poncho Master!

Actually I'm wondering if its not a 66. The 66 has a more vertical "nose", whereas the 65 is slanted, and this one looks sort of more upright...

However, the internet movie car database (which I just found out about!) shows it as 1965 Bonneville. I think that's technically incorrect, because wasn't the 2+2 a Catalina trim package back then?

http://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_26124-Pontiac-Bonneville-1965.html

-- Edited by davepl at 23:52, 2008-09-28

73SC · A Poncho Legend!

It is 100% a 1965. The red fill emblem has to say 2+2 and that would make it a Catalina. You can also see the 2+2 front fender louvers in the side angle shot. I'll mention that we owned a 1965 Laurentian, that is why I am certain. Since you have a big block car, I'll also say that the 409 was available in Canadian cars in 1965 with the 396 and 427 appearing in 1966.

-- Edited by 73SC at 23:58, 2008-09-28

davepl · Poncho Master!

So would there have been such a thing as a 1965 Pontiac 2+2 w/ 409? Did they make them in ragtops?

Joining this board is making me want more Pontiacs

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

No, we had no 2+2 till 67 in Canada.

409 cars in 65, but not a 2+2.

"Joining this board is making me want more Pontiacs" Oh, and yes, it will do that to ya!

-- Edited by Carl Stevenson at 00:00, 2008-09-29

73SC · A Poncho Legend!

Short answer is No. The model was a Parisienne Custom Sport and we have a few members with convertibles on here. The 409 is extremely rare in 1965 cars but yes it could exist in a rag top. There are plenty of guys with more knowledge than me who may chime in. We're glad you joined the fraternity. smile

Check out this link for a members car:

http://canadianponcho.activeboard.com/index.spark?forumID=118110&p=3&topicID=20906056

-- Edited by 73SC at 00:05, 2008-09-29

gparis7 · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

As 73 SC says, it's a 65 Catalina 2+2; second year of production. They sold them in the US from 64-67 only, & except for 64 (389 or 421), the largest engine (421 in 65-66 or 428 in 67) was the only one available. The grille is the giveaway with the emblem - the GP had the Canadian Custom Sport style grille while the 2+2 had the standard Catalina grille. I have a 64 2+2 but I'm also a fan of the 65 & 66 US 2+2s in particular. Very fast & well handling cars for their time & size. The 65 Pontiac lineup won the Motor Trend car of the year award in 1965.

macsleuth · Guru

Yup, 65 Catalina 2+2, Produced in US only, 421ci.
The red hood emblem is the give away.
Nice color. Mine is white.

Gary

macsleuth · Guru

Hey just noticed, you have a 64 2+2.
Pics?

BILTIT · Veteran Member

Here is a 65 catalina i am looking at buying.

Ghost Post · Poncho Master!

73SC wrote:

...Since you have a big block car, I'll also say that the 409 was available in Canadian cars in 1965 with the 396 and 427 appearing in 1966...

The 396 actually appeared in 1965 when 409 Production stopped...mid Feb. of '65 was the date of change from W-motors to Mk1v's at US plants, supposedly the same time window here in Canada..

gparis7 · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

I'm not aware of the 396 being available in the 65 Canadian lineup after the 409 was dropped. Has anyone ever seen a 396 65 Pontiac?

73SC · A Poncho Legend!

I have heard that the 396 could be in a 65 as Ghost Post indicates but I have not seen one or even seen any sales literature suggesting it was available. Of course there is the standard disclaimer on every sales brochure where GM Canada reserves the right to change options, engines, whatever without notice.

I feel confident in my statement above with this addition:

I'll also say that the 409 was available in Canadian cars in 1965 with the 396 and 427 appearing in 1966 sales brochures... smile

-- Edited by 73SC at 10:52, 2008-10-04

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

gparis7 wrote:

I'm not aware of the 396 being available in the 65 Canadian lineup after the 409 was dropped. Has anyone ever seen a 396 65 Pontiac?

Wow, you make a very good point. I always just said they were available, but now that you put it that way.......

macsleuth · Guru

Wow, looks like a really nice 65!
nice find.

Ghost Post · Poncho Master!

Carl Stevenson wrote:

gparis7 wrote:

I'm not aware of the 396 being available in the 65 Canadian lineup after the 409 was dropped. Has anyone ever seen a 396 65 Pontiac?

Wow, you make a very good point. I always just said they were available, but now that you put it that way.......

I've always understood they were available along with Canadian Chevy drivetrain RPO's of the time frame but I can't definately recall ever seeing one either...so lets dig deeper and see what we can find out?.

Keep in mind If Tonawanda stopped W-motor production when they switched to Mk1V's and Chevys going down the line got 396's after the mid Feb change date, if a Poncho buyer wanted a BB anything, where would they source the W-motors from and why would they if Mk1V's are right there at the plant already?.

This could be interesting...especially if W-motor inventories were used up in Canadian Ponchos or something like that and W-motor installations actually happened in any car beyond Feb!?.

So, does anyone here have Feb. or later printings of Canadian '65 brochures or sales info?.

smile

-- Edited by Ghost Post at 20:43, 2008-10-04

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

Well, you made a believer out of me.

I have the Canadian Pontiac assembly manuals on microfiche starting with 1963. No sign of a 396 in 65.

Went to two different Canadian Pontiac parts books. Both agree, no 396 in 65.

I would have lost money on that bet....

gparis7 · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

I'm doubtful about the 396 in the Canadian Pontiacs. I've never seen nor heard of one and they are not listed in any of the literature I've seen. It's also worth remembering that in 62, you could get a 409 in the Chevrolet, but the largest engine available in a 62 Canadian Pontiac was a 327. The Chevy and Pontiac lineups didn't become parallel until 63 with full availability of all three 409 engines in 63 & 64 in both the Chevy & Cdn. Pontiac lines. All of which is to say that the powertrain lineups weren't the same in every year and the 396, being introduced mid year in a limited number of full size Chevrolets, just may not have made its way into the Cdn. Pontiac lineup until full year 66.

-- Edited by gparis7 at 22:41, 2008-10-04

73SC · A Poncho Legend!

Then maybe someone should build one.

Ghost Post · Poncho Master!

So do you guys think W-Motors went into Canadian B-Body Ponchos through the end of 65 production?.

Wouldn't it be best to see evidence of either W-motors or Mk1V's in any post Feb. '65 build cars before saying either is certain?.

gparis7 · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

I would not be surprised if the 409 got carried through to the end of the 65 Canadian Pontiac run, but who knows? As far as I know only the 340 & 400 HP versions fo the 409 were available in the 65 Pontiacs - no 425 HP cars.

73SC · A Poncho Legend!

gparis7 wrote:

As far as I know only the 340 & 400 HP versions fo the 409 were available in the 65 Pontiacs - no 425 HP cars.

That's what my owner's manual says.

73SC · A Poncho Legend!

Here is a post from another forum H.A.M.B. A member there lists a few Canadian pontiac's he has personally seen and wouldn't you know it a 1965 396 is listed. Not proof positive but who would put a 396 2bbl in a 4 dr car as a project?

"mr57

Senior Member

Join Date: Jun 2002

Location: Sunnyvale Trailer Park

Posts: 1,034

Re: Canadian Pontiacs - Whats Up ???

Canadian Pontiacs were a little different than Chevies. I had a 53 Canadian Pontiac that had a flathead 6 in it. Other than the hood, grille, taillights it was essentially a 53 Chevy. I can't speak for sure on earlier than 53. From 55 up is where it gets fun. The base engine for 55 to 62 Pontiacs was a 261. the Canadian (and export) Pontiacs were built on Chevy chassis, using Chevy drivetrains. This is great for anyone building a 567 Canadian Pontiac because all the aftermarket stuff for Chevy chassis fits. Some oddball Canadian stuff I have seen in person or seen pics of:
1957 Pontiac Pathfinder (plain jane) w/250 hp FI 283
1957 Pontiac Pathfinder business coupe - no back seat
1958 Pontiac sedan delivery - belong to 29ehv8's father in law if I remember right
1960 StratoChief two door wagon.
1961 Parisienne (top of the line) ragtop, 348 4 speed.
1962 or 3 Parisienne wagon, 409 4 speed.
1965 Pontiac StratoChief four door sedan 396 2 bbl, pg
1967 Pontiac Custom Sport 427 auto
1968 2 + 2 ragtop 427 auto
1968 Beaumont Sport Deluxe w L-88

I have two or three 261's in the garage and a 56 Pontiac sedan delivery, kinda rare car."