'62 Parisienne Wagon on E-bay

427carl · A Poncho Legend!

RE: '62 Parisienne Wagon on E-bay

2drpost · Uber Guru

409 came out in '61, wasn't available in canada till '64??

73SC · A Poncho Legend!

427carl wrote:

your posting fee is overdue

Todd's rule is it is only due at 4,000 posts.

73SC · A Poncho Legend!

69 belair wrote:

409 came out in '61, wasn't available in canada till '64??

Not exactly. We are talking Canadian Pontiacs. 409 was a 1963 to 65 option on Canadian Pontiacs. Some even dispute 1963 because of the manual that 67Poncho posted BUT 1963 sales brochures do show it as an option. Seems to me 427Carl posted a pic of a 63 409 back in the summer that he found at the big Cadillac shin dig near London. Anyway That's what I know. Aubrey Bruneau confirms this on his web site and postings I already quoted. I think he is the acknowledged Canadian Pontiac 409 Guru!

gparis7 · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

67Poncho wrote:

! OK, when I started this tread, it was all about the Wagon and since then we have veered off into a cubic inch melee!!! I like great minds hashing it out!!! Since I wasn't around when these mills were hot off the press, I am unsure of the whens, wheres and why-fors!!! My Dad told me he had a '58 Bel-Air special ordered for a GM guy in St. Johns, Nl with a 409, but as we know, although he did swear by it, it must have been a 348?
But, thanks to you guys, it has been both informative, amusing and I like being the fly on the wall here!! That being said, this is a pic out of the Master Parts Catalogue, '58-'68 Pontiac, #682 effective November 1967. Is this Gospel, of course not but just thought to toss this in!!! This states that the 409 didn't come out till '64..?

-- Edited by 67Poncho at 20:31, 2008-12-17

On this one, 73SC and I are right. Notwithstanding the master parts manual above, the availability was 348 from 58-61; and 409 from 63-65. In 62 there wasn't even a 300 hp version of the 327 - 250 hp was top dog. I have attached the engine spec sheet from my 62 Pontiac shop manual supplement which documents that year. I don't have one for 63 but Pontiac availability of the 409 in 1963 & 64 is well documented by Aubrey Bruneau.

73SC · A Poncho Legend!

gparis7 & 73SC - the acknowledged 1962 Canadian Poncho engine EXPERTS!!

-- Edited by 73SC at 22:54, 2008-12-17

2drpost · Uber Guru

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

I claim nothing for expertise on these years. I just believed for years that the powertrains in the Canadian Ponchos matched the Ch**y powertrains. That is why I say, corrections accepted. Just here to learn!!!

Ghost Post · Poncho Master!

I too make no claims of being an expert on these cars or anything else either but am always interested in debating and sharing information that can help lead to any previously unclarified facts..

On W-Motors being available in '62, if anyone would know it's Aubrey so that pretty much tells you right there..
But I'll look for the '62 brochure I mentioned previously and admit I may be confusing it w/ the '61 brochure...if anyone has these at hand, please post them..

In all seriousness, this sites great combination of camaraderie plus the sharing of knowledge, experience and individual treasure-troves of literature is a great recipe for friendly discussions that can expose much 'lost' information and resulting facts of these Canadian cars we love!.

-- Edited by Ghost Post at 11:32, 2008-12-18

427carl · A Poncho Legend!

I just checked, and found out, you CAN put a 348 in a '62 lol lol lol lol Ho Ho Ho

forespeed · Poncho Master!

Several years ago Aubrey had a couple wagons for sale. One of them was a 63 and he stated it was one of one for 63 Canadian Pontiac wagons because it was ordered with a 409 and a 4 spd drivetrain. If he in fact had GM of Canada documentation, which he claimed, then I would think the 409 was available in 1963. This particular car was ordered for heavy trailering and that probably allowed the customer to order this equipment. I'm pretty sure it had a heavy duty rearend of some sort also.

Ghost Post · Poncho Master!

forespeed wrote:

Several years ago Aubrey had a couple wagons for sale. One of them was a 63 and he stated it was one of one for 63 Canadian Pontiac wagons because it was ordered with a 409 and a 4 spd drivetrain. If he in fact had GM of Canada documentation, which he claimed, then I would think the 409 was available in 1963. This particular car was ordered for heavy trailering and that probably allowed the customer to order this equipment. I'm pretty sure it had a heavy duty rearend of some sort also.

I believe it's the '62's being questioned in this thread and nobody here is wondering about the availability of W-Motors in the 58-61 or 63/64 model year Canadian Pontiacs...are they?.

In a previous thread we were debating the 1965 model year production using W-Motors or MK1V's after the mid Feb. '65 build date when Chevy plants switched over from W-Motors to MK1V's...has anything concrete surfaced on this subject yet?.

-- Edited by Ghost Post at 13:07, 2008-12-18

427carl · A Poncho Legend!

WE are woking on it.... should be released, before end of a year.

forespeed · Poncho Master!

69 belair wrote:

409 came out in '61, wasn't available in canada till '64??

My comment on the 63 409 wagon was in response to the above

Astro Jet · Poncho Master!

Well I will chime in here as well and going by memory, none of the 62 literature I have indicates the availability of the 409. As to the pecking order, sales brochures should be considered the least reliable as they often went to print well before the model year commenced and were put together by the marketing types without complete info. Remember the disclaimer: "specifications subject to change without notice!"

Also, remember that the 73 A body brochures showed the availability of the SD-455 engine as well. wink

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

The assembly manual for 67 Chevelle shows a tri power option for the 396, and then shows "cancelled" with a date on it too.

Lots of stuff likely was in the works that never happened.

73SC · A Poncho Legend!

Astro Jet wrote:

Also, remember that the 73 A body brochures showed the availability of the SD-455 engine as well.

Owner's manual shows it as well, fuse diagram shows Hood scoop solenoids as well.

427carl · A Poncho Legend!

In a previous thread we were debating the 1965 model year production using W-Motors or MK1V's after the mid Feb. '65 build date when Chevy plants switched over from W-Motors to MK1V's...has anything concrete surfaced on this subject yet?.

It would seem, there were some, '65 409 cars...

-- Edited by 427carl at 22:09, 2008-12-18

sixtywagon · Uber Guru

My Buddy had a 65 Impala SS years back, 409/4 speed, supposedly original. Back then, (early 80's) we didn't care about originality. He traded it for a 70 Malibu SS "original"454 auto, but had a 350/auto in it.

gparis7 · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

427carl wrote:

In a previous thread we were debating the 1965 model year production using W-Motors or MK1V's after the mid Feb. '65 build date when Chevy plants switched over from W-Motors to MK1V's...has anything concrete surfaced on this subject yet?.

It would seem, there were some, '65 409 cars...

-- Edited by 427carl at 22:09, 2008-12-18

I don't think there is any doubt that 65 409 Pontiacs were built up to early 1965. All my literature refers to them. What is unclear is if any 396 motors made their way into a 65 Pontiac chassis, or if in fact the 66 model was the first to actually receive the rat motor? I have personally seen an original 65 Impala 396/T400 bench seat convertible, but never a 65 Pontiac with the 396 powertrain, nor have I ever seen any literature on this combo.

427carl · A Poncho Legend!

gparis7 wrote:

It would seem, there were some, '65 409 cars...

I don't think there is any doubt that 65 409 Pontiacs were built up to early 1965. What is unclear is if any 396 motors made their way into a 65 Pontiac chassis, or if in fact the 66 model was the first to actually receive the rat motor? I have seen an original 65 Impala 396/T400 convertible, but never a 65 Pontiac with the 396 powertrain, nor have I ever seen any literature on this combo.

OK I was confused as usual.. I never though of the 65 Pontiacs w/396 I will have to search in my spare time...

gparis7 · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

Nor did I because I never thought the 396 made it to 65 Pontiac production, but it would be neat to know for sure.

427carl · A Poncho Legend!

If we have not seen a 396... Were there any 409's

gparis7 · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

I have not seen a 65 409 Pontiac, but there appears to be enough documentation in original GM literature to suggest they were built. Does anyone here have one? Or seen one?

Astro Jet · Poncho Master!

Yes, there is a 65 Parisienne or Custom
Sport 2 door hardtop with a 409 I have seen a number of times at cruises in the west end of the GTA. I have some pictures of it somewhwere. I believe the gentleman who owns it lives somewhwere north west of the city? Does anyone else from the GTA know this car?