Save 5% at Vevor and Support Canadian Poncho!
Members Login
Username 
 
Password 
    Remember Me  
Post Info TOPIC: Converting to carb


Poncho Master!

Status: Offline
Posts: 2441
Date:
Converting to carb


I didn't want to hijack the other thread.  Here's the info i was given by someone on another site about converting from TBI to carb.  Pretty thorough i thought...

Sooner or later, everyone tires of that flippin' crossfire. I wasn't sure what to do for a long time. I looked into crate motors, and priced everything out. When it was all said and done you're looking at about $6000-$7000, with parts and labour, plus most crate engines don't come with accessories (alternator, water pump, starter).

I finally realized I wasn't too interested in tire-shredding power, I just wanted something reliable. Since I had the motor rebuilt a few years back, it was a no brainer for me to just switch over, and like you, I had a million concerns, and a million questions.

Finally a friend of mine said let's do it, so we did. He is excellent with GM small blocks. Please keep in mind that it wasn't cheap to do, and there was a list of about 40 items that had to be purchased.....but it was about $4500 cheaper than buying a crate motor. I spent about $1500 for parts only, the labour was free, because a friend of mine did it for me (we just switched for some parts/favours) The first thing I had to do was choose a new carbuarator, and a new intake manifold.

I chose both an Edelbrock carb (Part # EDL-1406) , and Intake mainfold (Part # EDL-2101). You will also need intake manifold gaskets. The carb comes with gaskets. Next on the list was a fuel pressure regulator, and a fuel pressure gauge. You need a regulator because you are running an in-tank electric fuel pump, which runs 30-40 PSI, a carb uses 7-9 PSI, so you will need regulator to control the proper amount of fuel delivery, otherwise you'll have gas spitting out of the carb....not a good thing.

I also purchased a brand new chrome air cleaner. I also purchased a new thermostat (cheap insurance).

You will also need about 8 feet of fuel hose, and several bypass plugs, and clamps. Another concern is that you will not be able to use the existing alternator bracket, because they differ between carb and fuel injection, but you can get one used, or a new chrome one like I did from Canadian Tire (approx. $30).

That's the thing with converting, you need many little things, but just a few big things. I also chose to buy new chrome valve covers and gaskets to spruce up the engine bay:) I also bought a new chrome oil breather, to compliment the valve covers. If you go with an Edelbrock carb (recommended), you will need a fuel relocation line. You can get one from edelbrock for about $60 (like I did), or get a Mr.Gasket one for about $25 (get this one).

it is a good idea to buy a new thermostat housing, or "water neck", with a gasket just to ensure a leak free bolt on.

You will also need a throttle relocation bracket. Because the carb and crossfire throttle has a different placement, you will need one from another trans am/camaro with a carb set-up. Along with the bracket, you will need a throttle return spring so the pedal returns to normal position after it is released.

There is quite a bit of bypassing, and plugging that is necessary to successfully complete the install. I did remove all the AC equipment, and heating components. All i wanted was a nice looking and running engine, no extras.

...now if i knew how to do all the work i'd be alright...and i imagine i could get away with some cheaper parts, to at least get me going for the time being.  I'm not even sure if my fuel pump in the gas tank is working properly so i may have to go with a regular fuel pump.  Anyway this is the info i was given.



__________________

Randy

1967 Beaumont Custom 4 dr survivor
1985 Firebird

2004 Montana shortie

2007 Uplander extended*newest addition to fleet*

 



Poncho Master!

Status: Offline
Posts: 1282
Date:

When I decided to freshen up the 396 in my 67 2+2, I investigated a number of options.
The original engine was still running OK but seemed down on power and using more oil after the abuse it got on a trip to California. I told my wife it would be $3 to $4,000.
I ended up ordering a long block with a little more bore , stroke and hp. I admitted to $6k and stopped counting @ $10.
Transfered carb, pulleys, power steering pump, and brackets. Some powdercoat and paint happened. New exhaust was needed along with clutch and bellhousing. A few other replacements seemed necessary while I was at it.
Nothing is cheap, but it is all "necessary" and we stop short of what we really want to do.

Keep the groceries on the table, treat the SO to treats along the way and be happy.

Rick



__________________

1967 Parisienne 2+2
1967 Grande Parisienne

1967 Laurentian
1967 Strato Chief


Remember, "The Government" only has money confiscated from us.

 

 

Nov 18 to Dec 2 Black Friday UP TO 50% OFF Plus Huge Coupons
Nov 18 to Dec 2 Black Friday UP TO 50% OFF Plus Huge Coupons


Poncho Master!

Status: Offline
Posts: 1560
Date:

blacktransam,

Before taking the plunge, read this.

http://www.goingfaster.com/spo/praisetbi.html

smile



__________________



         www.67HEAVEN.com
Re-thinking the entire site design



A Poncho Legend!

Status: Offline
Posts: 35601
Date:

Sent PM and e-mail    Parts from Mark at Ancaster, may be just what you need!!!!

__________________

 



Poncho Master!

Status: Offline
Posts: 2441
Date:

He is definately for throttle body, but apparently doesn't like the Crossfire Injection set up very much. I thought that was the only throttle body set up on these cars. Carb, crossfire injection then TPI. Am i missing something?

__________________

Randy

1967 Beaumont Custom 4 dr survivor
1985 Firebird

2004 Montana shortie

2007 Uplander extended*newest addition to fleet*

 



A Poncho Legend!

Status: Offline
Posts: 35601
Date:

427carl wrote:

Sent PM and e-mail    Parts from Mark at Ancaster, may be just what you need!!!!



     Is anyone close to Randy in St Thomas, who could "drop in" and "slip a intake and carb" on his car for him?   He would play recorded music for you while you worked... anyone?  anyone ? Bueller?

 



__________________

 



Uber Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 3829
Date:

blacktransam wrote:

He is definately for throttle body, but apparently doesn't like the Crossfire Injection set up very much. I thought that was the only throttle body set up on these cars. Carb, crossfire injection then TPI. Am i missing something?


After the Crossfire(ceasefire) the TBI setup was used. It was a more dependable system, a refinement of the the Crossfire. The TPI -Tuned Port Injection was optional on 86 & newer.
I will ask a friend of mine who has several carb engines from 82-89 Fbody what he wants for a carb setup complete, and get back to you Randy.

 



__________________

Drifting offshore is a fine way to spend a day!!

Nov 18 to Dec 2 Black Friday UP TO 50% OFF Plus Huge Coupons
Nov 18 to Dec 2 Black Friday UP TO 50% OFF Plus Huge Coupons


Poncho Master!

Status: Offline
Posts: 2441
Date:

Thanks Earl. Carl yes i'll be happy to play whatever music someone brought... Oh i have opened myself up to a pandoras box there i'm sure! I'd like to get my hands dirty and learn to do the work too. No better way than getting in there and learing by doing, and making mistakes...i'm good at that. As long as i can figure out how to fix them right!

__________________

Randy

1967 Beaumont Custom 4 dr survivor
1985 Firebird

2004 Montana shortie

2007 Uplander extended*newest addition to fleet*

 



Poncho Master!

Status: Offline
Posts: 1921
Date:

if my intake and carb work, they are yours for a very low price. I will help no problem but im not the greatest either at this kind of stuff unless its just an easy swap. I will get the #s off the carb and intake tonight hopefully for ya. Hell, i have a whole 305 block with heads that you can have for free, it just needs a new cam and a real good cleaning(sand on it from sandblasting)I also have a turbo 350 tranny to go behind it.

__________________
1959 El Poncho!!


Poncho Master!

Status: Offline
Posts: 2441
Date:

Thanks Trevor. I'm not sure how simple or tough this conversion is. Seems to me with the fuel pump in the tank and having to manipulate those pressures it could be tricky. I've got a fuel filter on order at car quest i hope to get in the next few days. Not sure if it will temporarily solve any problems, but for $30 worth a try. I'm still thinking of switching it over and just not sure what to do. And wow you guys are great with having all these parts available!

__________________

Randy

1967 Beaumont Custom 4 dr survivor
1985 Firebird

2004 Montana shortie

2007 Uplander extended*newest addition to fleet*

 



Uber Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 3682
Date:

 I had a buddy of mine that had a Camaro with cross-fire---the first and only one I have ever seen when I worked with GM in Labrador. I rebuilt the mill for him and even before that and after, it had a bog off the line. Never did figure that one out. If I may, I wish to toss a few things at you about your conversion and know I am just trying to help out!
 For starters, I did everything in reverse to what you are doing. Three of my Pontiacs plus an '84 S-10 4X4 went to efi and there are others I still want to do. I have a 305 T.P.I here that I want to swap the injection onto a 350 for my '53 Bel-Air 2dr post.  My first was in '91. Also converted a '69 1/2 Chevy as well for another guy, but that is a different thread....
 If you use the mechanical pump, a 2 line, just hook into your feed line to it and plug off the return line back to the tank. Disconnect the electricial connector to the pump, power feed only, as the mechanical pump will draw fuel through the one way check ball in the pump and to the carb. That should solve your fuel problem without the extra cost of a regulator. Also, a mechanical fuel pump generally supplies 4-5psi and I the 30-40psi is for the "T.P.I" and not for crossfire. Also, 7-9psi for carbs is a shade high. (TBI pressure is 9-13psi and that is what the Crossfire used on the Camaro I worked on. Two-2.5 "Iron Duke" throttle bodies)
 I believe they still use the regular H.E.I distributor and other than swapping the intake and carb with the accelerator and kickdown bracket, you should be fine there. Also, of course, disconnect/remove the ECM and secure your wiring...
  
 



-- Edited by 67Poncho on Friday 27th of March 2009 08:06:51 PM

__________________

Vincent Jr.



Uber Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 3936
Date:

You have a 53 Belair 2door post ? Got any pics ?  Love those cars. I had one years ago, I showed a pic of a while back. I also had a hardtop and a coupe.

__________________
Nov 18 to Dec 2 Black Friday UP TO 50% OFF Plus Huge Coupons
Nov 18 to Dec 2 Black Friday UP TO 50% OFF Plus Huge Coupons


Uber Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 3682
Date:

Beaumont4008 wrote:




You have a 53 Belair 2door post ? Got any pics ?  Love those cars. I had one years ago, I showed a pic of a while back. I also had a hardtop and a coupe.





 Sure do...Sent you a PM with a little history but I will post the links here just in case anyone else wants to take a peek...........


https://i434.photobucket.com/albums/qq67/Vincentjr1967/Picture029.jpg?t=1238201861

https://i434.photobucket.com/albums/qq67/Vincentjr1967/1953ChevroletBel-Air.jpg?t=1238201952

https://i434.photobucket.com/albums/qq67/Vincentjr1967/Picture024.jpg?t=1238202007

https://i434.photobucket.com/albums/qq67/Vincentjr1967/Picture028.jpg?t=1238202061

https://i434.photobucket.com/albums/qq67/Vincentjr1967/Picture025.jpg?t=1238202116

 



-- Edited by 67Poncho on Friday 27th of March 2009 08:02:56 PM

__________________

Vincent Jr.



Poncho Master!

Status: Offline
Posts: 1833
Date:

could you not just power up the fuel pump in the trunk and put a regulator on it fro carb conversion or just drop tank unplug electric fuel pump and hook up line for a manual pump.you should ask TINY this is right up his alley he should be able to help you out.

__________________

1968 Beaumont 2dr Custom

1968 Beaumont 4dr Custom (sold)

1968 Beaumont 4dr (Parts Car)

1949 GMC (Slow Project)

1986 Buick T-Type (Rosewood Car)

 



Uber Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 3682
Date:

68 327 4spd wrote:

could you not just power up the fuel pump in the trunk and put a regulator on it fro carb conversion or just drop tank unplug electric fuel pump and hook up line for a manual pump.you should ask TINY this is right up his alley he should be able to help you out.



 Brian, I can understand a regulator to drop it from 13 to 5psi, but why through all the trouble of re-hard wiring, dropping the tank and/or fooling around with the pump itself? Have you ever done a tank in these? I have...NO fun especially when having to drop the axle and trac arm with rusted bolts, broken or spinning strap bolt nuts and the dreaded rusted fuel line nuts! 3.1 hours it pays plus any other troubles added to time to replace the tank and that is on a hoist! I can't imagine doing that on the floor!!! The fuel lines are at the engine anyway, just tap in!! 20 years with GM has tought me a few things and many a hard lesson along the way!!
 Again, going from EFI to carb is childs play, excuse me for saying,  compared to installing EFI in a carbed vehicle. Especially when the car wasn't meant for it in the first place!! Ask me how I know!!! Been there and done that 17 years ago when I did my first, my '70. EFI was basically in its baby phase then. 

 Just my thought though.......But trying to make it as painless and simple as possible.

https://i434.photobucket.com/albums/qq67/Vincentjr1967/Copyof100_1213.jpg?t=1238206051

https://i434.photobucket.com/albums/qq67/Vincentjr1967/Picture035.jpg?t=1238206089

 





-- Edited by 67Poncho on Friday 27th of March 2009 10:07:24 PM

__________________

Vincent Jr.



Poncho Master!

Status: Offline
Posts: 2441
Date:

Vincent thanks for that info! I really am not interested in dealing with that fuel pump in the tank. I think the reason i'm personally looking at doing this conversion is for convenience. More people are familiar with a carb set up and i can more easily do work/have work done on it. At least that's my thinking.

__________________

Randy

1967 Beaumont Custom 4 dr survivor
1985 Firebird

2004 Montana shortie

2007 Uplander extended*newest addition to fleet*

 



Uber Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 3682
Date:

blacktransam wrote:




Vincent thanks for that info! I really am not interested in dealing with that fuel pump in the tank. I think the reason i'm personally looking at doing this conversion is for convenience. More people are familiar with a carb set up and i can more easily do work/have work done on it. At least that's my thinking.





 Randy, I hear you!!!! And I understand your theory on converting and and agreeing with you on leaving the pump as is.........by using the mechanical one!!! That is why I wrote what I did to explain in the easiest possible way of doing the conversion. It should be the easiest.

 "If you use the mechanical pump, a 2 line, just hook into your feed line to it and plug off the return line back to the tank. Disconnect the electricial connector to the pump, power feed only, as the mechanical pump will draw fuel through the one way check ball in the pump and to the carb. That should solve your fuel problem without the extra cost of a regulator."



 



-- Edited by 67Poncho on Saturday 28th of March 2009 09:05:16 AM

__________________

Vincent Jr.

Page 1 of 1  sorted by
 
Quick Reply

Please log in to post quick replies.

Tweet this page Post to Digg Post to Del.icio.us
.
Support Canadian Poncho!
Select Amount:
<
.
.
.