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Post Info TOPIC: Ethical problem


Canadian Poncho Superstar!

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Ethical problem


This is potentially the cheapest, quickest and most value added engine swap I ever did, except for the fact that it is WRONG!

Seriously was there any external difference between the 396 and the 390 horse 427 in 1966?  The only thing I'm aware of is that dual exhaust was standard on the 427 and optional on the 396.  (Mine had it so I could cheat like crazy except that it would be WRONG!)



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ken from northern Alberta

38 Willys pickup electric

39 Buick (327 with 700 r4)

66 Grande Parisienne 396 with AC (built October 26 1965)

66 Beaumont 4 door hardtop

69 Chevy CST pickup

1976 GMC 23'  motorhome



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Heck, it's only an air cleaner lid! When these were new most people turned these things over for more air...

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Poncho Master!

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IMHO it's only an ethical problem if you're trying to sell it as something that it's not.
I now have multiple air cleaner lids for my 2+2 and change them depending on my mood.
The 396 is under the stairs in the shop and the engine in the car is just a fresh "396" with a little more bore and stroke.
It's your car and you get to do what you like.

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1967 Parisienne 2+2
1967 Grande Parisienne

1967 Laurentian
1967 Strato Chief


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A Poncho Legend!

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67rag396 wrote:

IMHO it's only an ethical problem if you're trying to sell it as something that it's not.
It's your car and you get to do what you like.



         Perfect!    My Ventura is getting big block emblems, to match my licence plate(off big block Monte, I had) 71T RAT   I like the attitude of having fun with it while you own it... Never mis represent it when selling    have fun

 



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A Poncho Legend!

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66 Grande guy wrote:

This is potentially the cheapest, quickest and most value added engine swap I ever did, except for the fact that it is WRONG!

Seriously was there any external difference between the 396 and the 390 horse 427 in 1966? 


          They are exactly the same.  see?


 396.JPG

427.JPG



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A Poncho Legend!

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clap.gif   right on   kinda like fishing, til you have to open the basket  haha

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Canadian Poncho Superstar!

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Thanks guys.  My wife figured I was being very sleazy, but its all fun until you have to sell right?  I haven't actually  pasted those decals on yet but they are just there in case I need to gain some horsepower in a hurry.

Anybody have a spare air cleaner lid so I can switch back to being Clark Kent when I want?

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ken from northern Alberta

38 Willys pickup electric

39 Buick (327 with 700 r4)

66 Grande Parisienne 396 with AC (built October 26 1965)

66 Beaumont 4 door hardtop

69 Chevy CST pickup

1976 GMC 23'  motorhome



Poncho Master!

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The only other time it may come up is in some parking lot bench racing or real racing if you ever go to the track, I'll let you come up with the appropriate explanation as to why your car over/under performed.  You would be in some good company.  Remember when the GTO first came out, Jim Wangers had some press cars that ran a lot better than anyone thought they should.  It was just a couple of years ago that Wangers finally admitted they had Royal Pontiac prepped 421 HOs under the hood instead of the 389s described in the brochures. wink

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1970 LS4 (eventually an LS5) Laurentian 2dr hdtp
-and a bunch of other muscle cars...


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Spent some time on those rainy cottage days reading and re-reading Wangers' book. Those Road & Track guys back in Christmas 63 were getting crazy sub 4 sec 0-60 times and 13 sec 1/4's with that red 421 car until one of them started slaloming it around and spun the bearings. They were absolutely giddy according to Wangers.

Wangers couldn't risk any other Pontiac dealer working on the car otherwise his secret might be out so he got a trailer hitch and put it on the blue GTO test car and towed the red one all the way from Daytona Beach Florida back to Royal Pontiac in Royal Oak Michigan. He says with storms and what not he never got back until Jan. 4th '64

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Built March 9, 1973 - Oshawa ON

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Poncho Master!

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Have fun with what you have, just don't try to sell as a 427.

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Canadian Poncho Superstar!

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Just feeling some delusions of grandeur for a minute there.  I think I'm OK now with the humble 396.

But I am kind of serious in asking if anyone knows if there really is any external difference betwen the two (like chrome valve covers on the 427 or dual snorkel etc.)

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ken from northern Alberta

38 Willys pickup electric

39 Buick (327 with 700 r4)

66 Grande Parisienne 396 with AC (built October 26 1965)

66 Beaumont 4 door hardtop

69 Chevy CST pickup

1976 GMC 23'  motorhome



Poncho Master!

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 The 427's have a bigger air inlet for the air cleaner than the 396's. You can tell the difference from a mile away. The 396's have a round inlet, the 427's have more of a rectangle/oval inlet. But 99% of the people looking under the hood would never know this.

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1967 Impala convert. 283, glide. Parked in the garage since 74 and hasn't moved. Soon to be BB 4speed.

 



A Poncho Legend!

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Ken, there is absolutely NO shame in having a documented 396 factory air Grande Parisienne. If you are doing it because you feel your car is inferior, I would say get over it! (And if you can't get over, I'd STILL like to buy that car from you!)

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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 44,000 original miles 



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no No sorry, I could not do that.  It's like the guy who says he drank a flat of beer and a 40 oz captain morgan.  Still drove home and was not even drunk!!  We all have heard those stories.  How about this one I met twins and yeah you guess the rest!!  Nope if you got a 350, 396, 427 or whatever, that's what you got.  I believe you lose respect, because if you can lie about that, what else are you hiding.  Be proud of what you are and have.  Could be a lot worse, you could not even have that car.  Honesty best policy.  But hey I am old fashion, a mans word is his bond.  Yup I can hear my girls, oh stop preaching Dad.

Hey on a good note, did someone say they wanted a number's matching 396/325 hp, THM 400, every opition avaible in 1968 on Grande Parisienne hard top, with only 61,000 miles and yes full GM documentation, protec plate and history, was a zone car for Regina, not a dealership ordered one.  Real decent western canada car. (not a rust bucket)  If you got $4000. in your jeans, fly out and put the cruise control on, point her to it's new home!   Here's her serial 76639811168.  Check it out!!!!!!!!


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Canadian Poncho Superstar!

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No Carl I am not ashamed of my 66 at all, just maybe at how little progress I'm making this summer now that my 39 Buick is running so sweet.  Oh well winter is plenty of time.  Don't worry if I decide to sell, you'll be the first to know!

I just thought I'd be a stinker here.  Seems to have stirred up some thoughts.

As for the real difference (the air cleaner inlet) it make sense they would have done that.  Good to know.

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ken from northern Alberta

38 Willys pickup electric

39 Buick (327 with 700 r4)

66 Grande Parisienne 396 with AC (built October 26 1965)

66 Beaumont 4 door hardtop

69 Chevy CST pickup

1976 GMC 23'  motorhome



A Poncho Legend!

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How many doors does it have?

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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 44,000 original miles 



A Poncho Legend!

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carnut70ls4 wrote:
Hey on a good note, did someone say they wanted a number's matching 396/325 hp, THM 400, every opition avaible in 1968 on Grande Parisienne hard top, with only 61,000 miles and yes full GM documentation, protec plate and history, was a zone car for Regina, not a dealership ordered one.  Real decent western canada car. (not a rust bucket)  If you got $4000. in your jeans, fly out and put the cruise control on, point her to it's new home!   Here's her serial 76639811168.  Check it out!!!!!!!!

How many doors does it have?

 



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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 44,000 original miles 



Poncho Master!

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Pics? What does it need?

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1970 LS4 (eventually an LS5) Laurentian 2dr hdtp
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carnut70ls4 wrote:
Here's her serial 76639811168.  Check it out!!!!!!!!


Carl Stevenson wrote:

How many doors does it have?

 


 

 766-39!  Looks like a Grande 4-dr h/top. But there are 2 digits missing in the vin.......




 



-- Edited by 67Poncho on Wednesday 5th of August 2009 08:04:04 AM

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Hi right a 4 door hard top, oops on serial # 7663981116818.  This a real nice car, no stories.  I bought the car in its current state a while back.  Previous owner was restoring car, from our converstion that we had???  His direction changed to motor cycles.  I have known about the car for a number of years but price tag was not what I wanted to pay.  It became within a few hundred more than I wanted to pay out after a couple years, but thought I did not want to lose out on car.  I bought it for one reason only, to remove its driveline for a project.  Brought car to shop at least three times, just could not bring myself to do it.  Had two life long buddies, who said screw you we are not helping.  One even threaten bodily harm if I did it.  Made me think, which is a bonus for me (thinking).  So it has sit inside at the farm.  Car has been stripped down for paint, should re sand and prime again before painting.  Yup have correct paint, colour and supplies to finish, that was almost a cool thousand dollars.  There are enough extra parts that came with car from previous owner, totaled together with paint, the four thousand I want, would not cover. 
Trim: 556 - Black Cloth Strato Back
Paint: K - Tripoli Turquoise Metallic
Top 27 -- Black
Production Date: November 14, 1967
Shipping Date: November 23, 1967
Model: 76639
Engine: 396 CID 325 HP 4bbl Astro Jet V8
Engine Number: T1103IV
Dealer : G.M. of Canada Zone Stock Regina SK
Production 1.265
A01 A31 A39 A42 A53 A93
B37 C08 C50 C60 D33 F40
G80 J50 K30 L35 M40 N20
N33 N40 P79 U63 U75 Z49
Hope that answers some questions......


-- Edited by carnut70ls4 on Wednesday 5th of August 2009 09:49:29 PM

-- Edited by carnut70ls4 on Wednesday 5th of August 2009 10:16:53 PM

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Canadian Poncho Superstar!

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Wayne sent me pictures of this car-its a good piece and worth that-I was on the fence (shipping costs) then bought my 66 Beaumont rag local

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Addicted!

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Just tried to down load, did not work.  Send me your email adrees and i will post them directly to you.....

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Canadian Poncho Superstar!

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carnut70ls4 wrote:

Just tried to down load, did not work.  Send me your email adrees and i will post them directly to you.....



Wayne-I was saying that you sent me pictures of it in the winter and thats its worth the money

 



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Addicted!

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Yup you are right worth every penny.  This car was never a rust bucket.  If you went state side it would not be any better.  The only things that have been changed is the exhaust, has headers, sounds sweet. The correct exhaust manifolds to car are in trunk.  At one time in its life wheels were changed to GM 15 inch ralley wheels, look sharp with skirts on or off.  trans is rebuilt about 1000 miles on it.  All the right stuff as you can see by the numbers.  Imagine if she was a 2 door, wagon or vert.  wow $$$$$.  This car is a no brainer.......

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