While this is a very nice car, it has a number of things that would cause it to have points deducted in a "points judged" competition.  Yes, the air cleaner should have a shorter snout angled more downwards.

Yes Chrome edge forward,open louver forward.That one of 60 car sounds interesting.

Ghost Post wrote:

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I saw the note about the engine change when I read the eBay listing again after I posted the previous note..
I know I saw this car somewhere within the past few weeks and remembered the original engine was gone from then also the father's car story...did someone here post a link perhaps?.

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I knew we'd seen it before here...Pontorquer linked us to the eBay ad in this posting..

http://canadianponcho.activeboard.com/index.spark?aBID=118110&p=3&topicID=30518435&page=1#lastPostAnchor

 

 

I won't beat around the bush, that's a $15,000 car, maybe $18,000 tops imo. It is super nice but to be a $31,000 as it is bid now it would need to be factory correct in every way and there are too many things wrong with it from that perspective. Would I own it, ABSOLUTELY.  As CPSC newletter editor I get a lot of information on appraisals, sales and cars for sale and I am very confident in what I have posted. That's about all I can say without breaching confidentiality.

On the flip side, whatever that car sells for is what it's worth ( to someone). If this car sells for 50 grande, thats what its worth to that owner for that sale and no one can argue that a car of that presentation sold for 50 grand, it is cast in stone at that point. Then and only then, the value of all similar cars, which there aren't any , is affected by that sale . I bought a piece of property once, that was appraised really low because no sales of properties had happened in that area. Now the only property sold was mine and it's priced low so the appraisals remain low but it's in my opinion that it's worth much more, but that does not matter, until the moment of truth happens and so on, see what I mean ? This is how appraisal documents are established.... so after this car sells for whatever, all the guys that say its only worth half that much have to adjust their scopes for the next one ... my 2 bits....

Elroy wrote:

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On the flip side, whatever that car sells for is what it's worth ( to someone). If this car sells for 50 grande, thats what its worth to that owner for that sale and no one can argue that a car of that presentation sold for 50 grand, it is cast in stone at that point. Then and only then, the value of all similar cars, which there aren't any , is affected by that sale . I bought a piece of property once, that was appraised really low because no sales of properties had happened in that area. Now the only property sold was mine and it's priced low so the appraisals remain low but it's in my opinion that it's worth much more, but that does not matter, until the moment of truth happens and so on, see what I mean ? This is how appraisal documents are established.... so after this car sells for whatever, all the guys that say its only worth half that much have to adjust their scopes for the next one ... my 2 bits....

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I agree with Elroy 100%.  Being a staunch capitalist, I say let the market decide and the market is always right.  Whatever it sells for, that price has been established in free and open process between seller and potential buyers.  What any of our opinions are right now won't mean a hoot then.

I have been following the collector car market, and in particular the Pontiac and Canadian Pontiac market, for close to 30 years and have bought and sold a few cars in that time too.  I know a lot of people in the Pontiac hobby and GM collector car field including many that sell vehicles on ebay full time and have many close personal friends involved in the restoration business as well.  The car is not 100% factory correct but nonetheless appears very nicely done.  I can say from experience that when the price has been bid to where it is now, undoubtedly some of the bidders have already done personal inspections of the car.  People don't bid those kind of dollars without knowing what they are getting. 

What are we talking about here to make the car correct?  An air cleaner? Some mirrors? Some stripes? Maybe an emblem or two?  C'mon guys, when we are talking about a car that is as rare is this one, and is basically already "done", we are talking absolute PEANUTS in order to make it right. 

How many of the 60 427/390 rags made do you even think are left in existence now?  I have seen many instances where people have paid $20-$30K US for a "hulk" of a rare car and then taken it to someone like Scott Tiemann's Supercar Specialties and spent $50-$100K restoring it.  "Nice" garden variety muscle cars go for $15K whereas this one is super rare.  Makes this car look like a relative bargain.  Haven't we all been saying since this site started that Canadian Pontiacs are undervalued?  Isn't the creation of the CPSC a step towards recognition  that things may be finally starting to change in that regard?

We may all have our "opinions" as to what we as individuals might pay for the car but I for one am happy to see that people willing to talk with their wallets are going to start establishing some long overdue benchmarks. 

73SC wrote:

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I won't beat around the bush, that's a $15,000 car, maybe $18,000 tops imo. It is super nice but to be a $31,000 as it is bid now it would need to be factory correct in every way and there are too many things wrong with it from that perspective. Would I own it, ABSOLUTELY.  As CPSC newletter editor I get a lot of information on appraisals, sales and cars for sale and I am very confident in what I have posted. That's about all I can say without breaching confidentiality.

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No disrespect Ray, but do you honestly feel the 2 + 2 is only worth about the same as this car:

http://canadianponcho.activeboard.com/forum.spark?aBID=118110&p=3&topicID=30600590

 

RESERVE IS GONE, NOW @ $45,000.

Yup, I think we all came to that concensus:

http://canadianponcho.activeboard.com/index.spark?aBID=118110&p=41&topicID=30602786&commentID=30607952&subAction=quote

Astro Jet wrote:

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I think it is shocking all of us what this car has been bid to so far
as well:

http://canadianponcho.activeboard.com/forum.spark?aBID=118110&p=3&topicID=30518435

In any event, good for Canadian Pontiacs and the recognition they should receive.
It looks like the concensus here is the reserve is probably about $45K.  Will it get bid that high, who knows?  By all rights this car should be worth AT LEAST as much as an equivalent 427 Impala SS convertible, but since it is much rarer, a lot more than that.  The market is what the market is.  None of us has seen an equivalent car sold in Canada in the last few years.  I saw a triple black 68 427 2 + 2 convertible sell for about $15K at the Toronto auction about 10 years ago.  The problem, as we have stated many times on this site, is that the big market, the US, is generally unaware of even the existence of these cars, let alone their rarity and value.  A big step forward was taken this year with the formation of the new Canadian Pontiac Speciality Chapter of the Pontiac Oakland Club International.

-- Edited by Astro Jet on Wednesday 2nd of September 2009 12:49:06 PM

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Quite surprising it's gone this high - especially considering that it is not exactly all original.

 

I must say that I am surprised that there have been 4 bidders over $20k on a Cdn Pontiac located in Florida.
Someone really wants this car.