235 vs 261 6 Cylinder

Oracle · Addicted!

RE: 235 vs 261 6 Cylinder

Oracle · Addicted!

I do wonder if any 265s were available on Canadian Pontiacs, say the Pathfinders, as it was available for a time in 2bbl form.

As regards 1957s, these are my known cars' details:

1957 PONTIAC LAURENTIAN SEDAN

SERIES: 72019D836827

STYLE: 2019D

BODY: 3286

1957 PONTIAC LAURENTIAN 4-DOOR HT

General Motors Continental SA, Antwerp

Model 2039DA

Chassis # [CA]-257-7360

Engine # W9 96,098Xx [261 cu. in, Powerglide unit]

PONTIAC LAURENTIAN 4D HT 1957
MODEL: 2039DA

SERIAL: 72039D601402
ENGINE: W61,571
STYLE: 2039D
BODY NO: 66
PAINT: 2504
TRIM: 909

PATHFINDER DELUXE

SERIAL: 72019648552
ENGINE: W100379
BODY: 13432
PAINT: 2411
TRIM: 901
B.S.O: 213

1957 PONTIAC 4 DR SEDAN

72019639272

ENGINE W92101

BODY 10076

STYLE 2019

PAINT 2416

TRIM 901.

You can see that all have 'W' prefixes for 261 engines, the engine number series run on from the 1956 261 series, and are different from the 235, although '9' for 'Powerglide' stil applied to all 235, 248 and 348 engines built in Canada.

However, this does in no way totally prove/disprove the availability or fitment of 235 engines in that Model Year.

Oracle · Addicted!

I have just checked my 1957 London Motor Show catalogue. The Canadian Pontiac exhibit was a 1957 Model 261-powered Laurentian Convertible, lhd.

73SC · A Poncho Legend!

George at Vintage would be able to tell us for sure on all of thees matters.

davelacourse · Poncho Master!

Halfbreed wrote:

davelacourse - I have sent you the PDF file you requested. Hope you can enlighten us. Thanks to all for your efforts.

I'm stll wondering how many 1957 CPs had fuel injection. I know of some in Chevrolets in our area over the years. One friend of mine inherited his brothers original a few years ago. What a beauty!

OK it's done (separate post). Verrrrrrrrry interesting!! Wonder if there were ever any 283/283's in the 57 Canadian Pontiacs???!!! I know the 4-speed was a mid-year option for 57 Corvettes (and regular Chevys), so maybe same for the CPs?

Unfortunately the spec sheet does not say anything more about transmission options than what is shown in the section I have pictured. No mention of a 4-speed. I do know that there was a "close ratio" 3-speed offered by Chevy in 56 & 57, I assume that is what is listed in the spec sheet. Interestingly, the "close ratio" 3-speed was very similar to the first 4-speed: 2.2:1 in 1st, 1.31:1 in 2nd, and 1:1 in 3rd, whereas the 4-speed added a another gear between, 1.66 as the new 2nd gear.

Dave

Taylor55 · Poncho Master!

I am sure there is a misprint in the 1957 Canadian Pontiac Brochure. All Canadian Pontiacs built beteen 1955-1962 had the 261 six as the standard engine. The W before the serial number is a definate indication of a 261 engine. I have been checking out these cars since 1970 and have never seen a 235 as original equipment in a Canadian Pontiac from this era. I have never seen a 235 rated at 148 hp in the tri 5 era. In my opinion the brochure is incorrect.

Al

red rat · Guru

58 poncho fan wrote:

The way I have been informed thru brochures, etc. all six cylinder Canadian Pontiacs from 1955-1962 should have the GMC 261 truck engines from the factory! However I do recall one of those years, (it could have been the 1957) did have the 235 engine if it was stick shift! Does anyone else out there have a 1957 Canadian Sales Brochure, as perhaps it will give more details, if it is an updated issue!

GMC truck engines were 228, 248, 270 and 302 all stovebolt sixes. The 261 was a Chevy truck engine used in one tons and school buses, however the 261 was used in Canadian GMC trucks. I have a 261 in my 1953 Chevy half ton, transplanted.

Stephenzone · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

my scanner isn't set up yet but my canadian truck books, chev/gmc maintenance manual for 55 states 235 w/ optional 265 for up to 1500/9500 series (14000 lbs gvw) and 1600/9600 series (16,000 lbs gvw)and above 261 and 265 optional. my 56 supplement same. except 1700/9700 265 std and for 1900/9900 series (22,00) 322 std. 57 parts book for chev/gmc engines are 235,261,283, and for the big boy a 322. next book i have is for 60 and the engines are 235,261,283,and 348. the number i see for the above post are for american gmc.

-- Edited by Stephenzone on Sunday 6th of December 2009 10:16:35 PM

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

I find myself in the unenviable position of not agreeing on a point with Taylor55! From what I have seen he knows these years of Canadian Poncho as well as anyone I've ever met.

With that said, the parts book for 46-57 Pontiac lists the bore of the 56 Pontiac 6 cyl at 3 3/4 and 57 Pontiac at 3 9/16 for 6 cyl. This seems to say that 235 is correct in 57. Is it possible that both the brochure and the GM parts book are wrong? It certainly is, but it seems unusual.

Anyone?

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

And I should note, this version of the 1946-1957 parts book is printed in 1960. They are poor proof readers if they didn't catch and correct a major mistake like that after 3 years!

********DISCLAIMER*********

I know very little about Pontiacs of this era. I am just regurgitating info I have read!

73SC · A Poncho Legend!

What is the possible explanation for having one year from 1955 to 1962 with the 235 engine when the 261 was the hallmark of the Canadian Pontiac line ? It makes absolutely no logical sense.

I find myself agreeing with Al, the engine code will tell the story. We know of countless instances when sales brochures have been incorrect as well as other factory publications. I know I am not alone in saying that Al is one of our foremost experts on this era of Canadian Pontiacs so I defer to him in this instance.

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

Sadly, my GM assembly manual microfiche don't go back quite far enough or I would have another source for info.

Agreed Ray, Al is most likely right. It's so odd for so much printed info to be wrong though.

57poncho · Uber Guru

davelacourse wrote:

Beaumont4008 wrote:

Halfbreed, any way of posting the page with the engine data from your brochure. We have one on file but can not read the printed details. Does this mean that some folks with 57's think they have a 261 when they have a 235 ? I see some cars in the 57 regestry that are listed as 261's.

57Poncho is going to email me full-size version of his brochure so I will work to make it available for all to see with legible print.

Dave

Woops I for got to do this I better get on it sorry .

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

Is your wagon the original engine Vern?

57poncho · Uber Guru

I just took a look at the brochure and it says 148HP 235. I must be a typo my car has a 261 and any other 6s I know of in 57 are 261. All so my GM documentation says 261. But no where in the brochure does it say 261.

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

Interesting...

I decided to keep looking in the parts book. I thought of looking up a piston since that would be the one thing that would certainly be different between the two.

Here is the line in the parts book for piston-

3707460 1955-1957 with 6 cyl (std)

Meaning standard bore, not standard trans of course.

This is in the same book that lists the bore being different in 56 than 57. Not possible, one of these statements is wrong.

57poncho · Uber Guru

Carl Stevenson wrote:

Is your wagon the original engine Vern?

Sure is 261 148 HP

Beaumont4008 · Uber Guru

Brochure says 235 148 hp. Must be an error as 235's are 140 hp 261 are 148hp.

davelacourse · Poncho Master!

More and more it is starting to look like General Motors was really General Fubar in 1957, eh?

Dave

73SC · A Poncho Legend!

davelacourse wrote:

More and more it is starting to look like General Motors was really General Fubar in 1957, eh?

Dave

Geez Dave, I wouldn't just limit it to 1957, look what happened in the past year!! FUBAR is the perfect description of killing Pontiac. massive layoffs, closures, bailouts and Chinese loving Buicks!

Oracle · Addicted!

What was the engine colour for the Strato-Six 261? Was it green as I suspect? The 235 was presumably blue in Canadian (Chevy) cars, and green in trucks?

-- Edited by Oracle on Tuesday 2nd of February 2010 05:28:58 PM

427carl · A Poncho Legend!

Check with Ray Hes got all the colors somewhere

davelacourse · Poncho Master!

Oracle wrote:

What was the engine colour for the Strato-Six 261? Was it green as I suspect?

There is a topic or two about engine color hereabouts, but the short answer is: it was green (color on the lower part of my 261 [which shows the Captains Bars] has kind of gone away, eh?):

Captains Bars.jpg

Dave

-- Edited by davelacourse on Tuesday 2nd of February 2010 06:51:38 PM

73SC · A Poncho Legend!

My extensive research is on the ENGINE COLOUR thread, just click the highlighted text. If you use it please quote source and compiler.

-- Edited by 73SC on Tuesday 2nd of February 2010 11:49:06 PM

davelacourse · Poncho Master!

Whoa, way cool Ray! Somehow I missed those posts of yours until now.

I hasten to point out that the chrome valve cover and air cleaner on my 56 are definitely NOT stock

Dave