Non-emotional discussion about numbers matching

67HEAVEN · Poncho Master!

Non-emotional discussion about numbers matching

67SD396 · Poncho Master!

Not sure why it's that way.... but I'm dang glad it is because I can afford the cars that aren't numbers matching!!!!!!!!

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

Non emotional answer----

I am just not the type who makes a big deal about numbers. I love to look at that type of cars but I have other places to spend my money.

Certain people have to have things exactly as they should be, exactly as they were built. That is just fine, I have no problem with it. I'm just not one of those people.

Bottom line is market value. As long as there's people who will pay top buck for exactly-as-built cars, those cars will be worth more than the one that is identical but the numbers don't match.

The mainstream hot rodders laugh at the correct nut and bolt type guys. That's fine, we each have our own likes and dislikes.

57poncho · Uber Guru

I don't know what make car one worth more but I sure am glad it make it make car 2 worth less so guys like me can afford it

Canadian Poncho · A Poncho Legend!

I guess some guys prefer to have a car with all the original components that were bolted together at the factory and place a higher value on them. I suppose if I were in this hobby as an investor then I would prefer numbers matching. Then again, I'd also want original paint..

Todd

TINY · Guru

I say take car1 and car2 slam them both put a big bottle of NOS in the tank ratlle can car1 black with flames and car2 just flat back tint the windows throw on some sticky tires and lets have a grudge race!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

tc · Guru

Car number one is worth more and allways will be for the simple fact that it still retains ALL the components it was born with. There is no other reason. Let's face it, all car folks that buy a car like to be able to say '"SHE'S ALL ORIGINAL" .

73SC · A Poncho Legend!

Hmmm, I have owned mostly brand new cars that I have ordered from the factory. Lets see, year 3 water pump replaced, can't say where my shop got that part, then the AC compressor goes, got that one on exchange, alternator went and got a rebuilt one, someone backed into my taillight and I had to go to the wrecking yard to get another one, speedometer broke and GM replaced that with another one under warranty. Heck I'm the original owner and the car is only 4 years old and it's not numbers match anymore. How a 40 year old car can be is very hard to believe. Does anybody really believe it?

67HEAVEN · Poncho Master!

73SC wrote:

Does anybody really believe it?

The guys who sell the "correct font" number punches do. wink

Stephenzone · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

i'm non emotional but very opininated

I agree with Carl. chalk this one up

i'm figuring barrett-jackson and the other car enthusiast (investors), trying to hide their money from the taxman or ex-wifes for that matter or look what i can afford. they are the ones that care about numbers correct. and for that matter have almost ruined the car hobby for the rest of us.

455gto · Poncho Master!

That's why there is guys making money on repunching numbers. I didn't want to spend over $500 on a carb and find out it was a restamp, so a 1968 looks the same with the air cleaner on it.

66 Grande guy · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

They were built to be driven, not worshipped. I hope that's not considered emotional, just logical.

Canadian Poncho · A Poncho Legend!

67Heaven, I bet you get lots of grief from the Bloomington Gold types about your Vette. I saw a 63 split window Vette today. It was covered in bug splatter and the interior was driver quality. It was refreshing to see one like this!

Todd

67HEAVEN · Poncho Master!

69Laurentian wrote:

67Heaven, I bet you get lots of grief from the Bloomington Gold types about your Vette.

Yeah. But I bet I have plenty more fun than some. Driving a restored car in and out of an enclosed trailer "don't float my boat". wink

I've driven it 25,000 miles since the rebuild, including in Monsoon rains on the way to Bowling Green and Carlisle several times. It's a driver. If I wear it out, I'll rebuild it again.

Canadian Poncho · A Poncho Legend!

Here's an interesting take on the current collector car market:
CLICK HERE

67BBSD · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

69Laurentian wrote:

Here's an interesting take on the current collector car market:
CLICK HERE

interesting

I've often found that the car with the incorrect drivetrain was the owner's toy-raced in the summer stored in the winter-much better body, the correct one just never had any money spent on it and less likely stored often rust repaired. I don't find non numbers are that far behind numbers-some quote 20% but this is not always so. If your not paying for numbers great but if you are you have to wonder if they really are numbers-people having been restoring high end stuff for a long time now. Generally numbers seem to mean someone took the time to hit every swap meet and find everything. The Corvette guys started all this numbers balony-if your buying an original owner/original paint/time machine thats great but otherwise its just a car-buy a solid one first. If you can't afford solid thats OK too-its just a hobby-theres a place for everyone

67HEAVEN · Poncho Master!

69Laurentian wrote:

Here's an interesting take on the current collector car market:
CLICK HERE

Thanks, Todd. I really enjoyed reading that.

eeluddy · Uber Guru

As a guy who was into Corvette's starting with my 1st one which was a 65 convertible that had the original 327 that needed a full rebuild, not running when I bought it. I took it out and put a 350 out of 71 Monte Carlo. Sold the original engine to drag racer because the 350 was a good one. I really took a lot of crap from AS**OLes when I went to sell it. Since then I've had a lot of Corvettes ,and a 69 Charger Hemi that would be worth a fortune BUT it didn't have it's original engine (replaced by a 440). I've learned to spot the numbers match guys by a look or the first sentence out of their mouth.
Ignoring them is the best advice I can give to anyone. Life is too short to worry about a 40 year old lump of cast iron having a certain number on it that most people couldn't see anyway.

87 player bird · Poncho Master!

It's become a business, not a hobby anymore. This is the same thing as the 63 split window. You cant see out the rear view mirror, but the 64 is perfect out the rear. Why does everyone want a 63?? Because someone said it's worth more, doesn't make it better, Then with the re-stamping, who cares anymore? Build something you can enjoy, not an rrsp, or a 401k. Just my 2 cents.

67HEAVEN · Poncho Master!

I started this thread after seeing one too many for sale ads on Kijiji and Craigslist for "numbers matching" '85 4-door Dodges.

It used to be, when I pulled into a gas station, that the first question out of people's mouths was, "How fast will it go?", or, "Which year is it?".

Now, the first question is......"Is it numbers matching?". This from a guy driving a Kia or a beat-up pickup.

It's the Barrett Jackson disease.

87 player bird · Poncho Master!

10-4! That's part of the reason I got rid of the goat. No one said how fast is it, but you know what that thing's worth at the Barret-Jackson? A##%$&#s! the glory days are behind us good friends. cry

Giovanni · Veteran Member

I don't care much about numbers matching as long the car has a similar engine to the original.
An old car is supposed to be fun to the owner, so I don't see the point in giving so much importance to matching numbers.
A matching engine is worth nothing if it doesn't run properly, I'd rather have a rebuilt engine that runs good. smile

67Poncho · Uber Guru

My biggest thing is, am I doing this for me, or someone else?? Most of my stuff is for me.. There was another thread on this but it got very emotion as most of the members know... And actually I was right up there with most! People have different values in their lives and the way they present it... To each their own but please don't trash others!!!!

I was at a car show yesterday with my fairly original sans driveline '53 Bel-Air, wanted to show off my newly installed ralleys with trim rings, (lol), and had many people look at it. These 3 older gentlemen sized the car up and they were doing the usual pointing and surveying of the car. Since I was in the back ground spying this, I walked over and politely asked if they had found any more blemishes that I hadn't known about?? Of course, they paused.........

After a little chit chat, one of them asked about the original mill and trans? But it had been seized and rusted beyond repair and I explained why I had taken the route the car now sits with.. "But that is not original", one spoke up to say... Then pointed out the wiper marks on the windshield, the separation of the 2 panes of glass from the laminant and so on..... I told him, the glass is it's own as well as the suspension and interior, not bad for a 56 year old non painted, besides the drivers door, original body.....

Then his chums kinda got him to lighten up, then the conversation switched to me just driving it and having fun as a bonus in the meantime... Besides, I said, if you don't like looking at it, all you will see in a minute as I go by you, are the tail lights anyways!!!
Then they all kinda agreed to themselves and to me that fun was the whole point of having an old car, numbers matching or not and then continued on their merry way to the next victim/car............. Do what is good for you but most of all have a blast doing it!!

AND, that's my story and I am sticking to it!!! biggrin

-- Edited by 67Poncho on Sunday 13th of September 2009 06:59:23 PM

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

eeluddy wrote:
Ignoring them is the best advice I can give to anyone. Life is too short to worry about a 40 year old lump of cast iron having a certain number on it that most people couldn't see anyway.

Well said!!!

ak 67sd · Poncho Master!

they are only original once, they are rare in that condition and are worth more $$$... to me this really applies to 'rarer' big motor muscle cars, where the #'s motor can sway the value so much (so much so that its ridiculous...like on an LS6 car)...Authentic, original, rare AND desirable = more money, and this applies to many collectibles... Restamps are pure fraud, and its really too bad that people get burned on buying cars for fake 'originality'...

i prefer cars that are really valued based on their build quality, fun factor and nostalgia, not #s, and i think this applies to a big majority of the old cars out there...

ak