FLOOR PANS !!!!!

427carl · A Poncho Legend!

RE: FLOOR PANS !!!!!

since 1983 · Poncho Master!

here are a couple more !!

since 1983 · Poncho Master!

in fact i ordered two full pans that start from the upper two board and runs on one side of the trans tunnel to the wall ( vertical part of floor ) under the seat

these pans are welded to the trans. tunnel half way up

so this way the under seat part will be covered

i also ordered a brace the runs under the rear seat and two rear seat pans

the only holes that i think wont be covered are the lower rear wheel wels ( see the pics )

now i have to decide what to cut ( how much to cut ) and sand blast the rest

my center floor braces seem ok but i might find some surprises as i cut more out of the floor !!!

i did cut out some rust on the lower part of the toe board on the drivers side ( see pic ) and had ordered a toe board , but the full pans include the toe board so i will return that part.

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

As long as the top of your tunnel is good. Check it very carefully. You don't want to start welding and find out it burns through right away when you are trying to weld new metal to old.

Now the next question. Are you planning to butt weld or lap weld? That makes a bit of a difference when you weld sections in. The lap is sure more forgiving, but not as authentic/neat looking.

since 1983 · Poncho Master!

Carl Stevenson wrote:

As long as the top of your tunnel is good. Check it very carefully. You don't want to start welding and find out it burns through right away when you are trying to weld new metal to old.

Now the next question. Are you planning to butt weld or lap weld? That makes a bit of a difference when you weld sections in. The lap is sure more forgiving, but not as authentic/neat looking.

my tunnel will be checked again , the only weak spot is by the rear seat belt bolt , there is rust that runs to the top of the tunnel ' it makes it look like a crack and when i press on it with my weight it springs lightly ( that will have to be reinforced )

butt weld or lap weld ( wich one of those two is a MIG weld ????)

-- Edited by since 1983 on Monday 1st of February 2010 11:03:37 PM

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

You can weld it either way with a mig. On a lap weld, you take one panel and over lap the other panel sligthly (maybe 1/2" -1") and then weld. I am not a body man but I would imagine then you need to weld the seam on the other side of the panels as well since there will be a joint there that is unwelded/unsealed.

On a butt weld, the panel edges are cut to fit up against the other panel edges and then you weld in the gap between the two. This requires much more time and patience but makes it look much nicer because you can grind down the weld more than on a lap weld. On a lap weld if you grind them smooth, you will have no weld left holding the two panels together.

Clear as mud???

Beaumont4008 · Uber Guru

This is the floor on my sons 67 camaro and we butt welded the seems . In other words the new pan butted up against the cut in the tunnel instead of overlaping it. A mig welder was used.

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

Good thinking Ian, pictures!

A quick step by step when I did my Acadian floors, I think that is 3 years ago. I started with this. Rusted out over the floor support, the black area (my old temporary patch)

First I laid the new pan in, traced it.

Then I cut off far less metal than the final cut would be so I could trim it until the new pan sat in and perfectly filled the gap where I had cut out the old. This took me a long time. I am a rookie (first time ever doing floors) so I kept trimming, checking fit, repeat, repeat, repeat.

Then welded the whole area, all the way around the outer edge of the pan. Weld about 1/2" or so, move an inch, weld another 1/2", so on and so on. Just keep going around. This prevents heating up one area and warping it badly.

When finished, grind down the welds, then grind more and so on and so on............... The tarp forms a tent inside the car because the sparks from welding or grinding are killers on interior trim, windows etc.

Seam sealer across the front seam, messy like the factory did it (!!) and then a quick coat of white paint.

I took about 25-30 hours, never kept an actual tally. No speed record, that is for sure.

-- Edited by Carl Stevenson on Monday 1st of February 2010 11:53:40 PM

Beaumont4008 · Uber Guru

Dam good work for first time Carl.

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

Thank you Ian.

I really enjoyed doing that. The next fall, I did the same job for a fellow from Winnipeg on his Nova. Same sheet metal, first generation Nova.

I have said if I could get work just doing floor pans I'd do it. I don't have the skill level for outer metal, replacement quarter panels etc but I can make floors look nice. It was a great experience and a great way for a rookie to practice.

The only other thing I ever did (major) for sheet metal was put a complete quarter panel on the 94 SS I drive. I think it's a lot easier to do an original style replacement, drilling out all the factory spot welds than putting on aftermarket partial panels. All the seams are hidden on oem panels.

Canadian Poncho · A Poncho Legend!

What did you use to cut the old floors out with Carl?

427carl · A Poncho Legend!

69Laurentian wrote:

What did you use to cut the old floors out with Carl1?

Carl2 said

Reciprocating Saw ( Sawzall ) Skil - Click Image to Close

This is what I used, to cut out floor for V8 Sunbird.... no sparks=no fire lol

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

A combo of jig saw and an air powered cutoff wheel along with aviation snips worked the best.

since 1983 · Poncho Master!

man !!!!! i love this forum , i am getting great answers !! thanks guys

now i know that i will be cutting EVERYTHING of the old floor , where the new floor pan is comming.

the idea to trace a line as a guide with the new floor pan is very clever

but welding does not seem easy , i wil probably consider lap welding on both sides in and under the car

with a full pan ( right and left ) i will be cuting out quit a lot of metal !!!!! if you look at my pics !!
my lack of experience was telling me to over lap the full pan on top of some original floor parts that are stil ok...................no no no cut the whole thing out!!!!
keep up the good advice guys thanks again

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

To be clear, do you have a one piece full pan ordered?

If not, I think they might make 2 halves that overlap in the middle that you can trim. I'm not sure because I have not done an A body (Beaumont, Lemans, Skylark etc.)

As long as the two halves meet in the middle you will be ok.

since 1983 · Poncho Master!

thats it Carl i ordered two half pans left and right that run from front to rear of the floor area ( they even go up to the toe board to the dimmer switch level )
i will weld these along the tunnel and along the rocker panel and edge along the rear wall of the car if my term is right
also ordered two seat pans left and right ans one cross brace

total cost 750.00 txs incl.

67SD396 · Poncho Master!

Something to think about when doing this is the cars structural stregnth. It might not be as big of an issue on an A-body car (has a frame) but I know Carl and I have discussed this topic when he did his Acadian because there is no frame to support the car. It is a big concern on a unibody car because if the car is not braced properly, the doors may never close again. I don't know if this will be an issue since your car is sitting on the frame but I would still think about it and probably make sure the body mounts are not rusted out prior to this task.

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

And maybe support the frame in a whole bunch of places. Don't put pressure up on the frame, just support it.

It is amazing how much the body contributes to the structural integrity of a car, even one that has a full frame.

Elroy · Poncho Master!

Thanks guys for posting these great articles. This will really help when I tear into mine.

since 1983 · Poncho Master!

support the frame , i could imagine , that it could chage something

but might as well do it not to take any chances , i am tearing out both side of the tunel

you never know

thanks

since 1983 · Poncho Master!

well i finished cutting the whole floor today , from the toe board to the rear seat pan

i am installing two full half pans ( front to rear ) and also two rear seat pans

i will post pics soon

i had planed changing the rear seat brace , but was not shure about the two other braces until i had finished cutting the whole floor ( always surprises )

so the mid brace was rusted and was removed , the font brace was not so bad , still reasonnably solid , but had some rot , so i decides to also take it out

the problem here was the following............what ever floor part i cut out , i cut the brace with it , but i was keeping intact my tunnel , in order tu lapweld the pans , but the braces where factory welded under that tunnel part i wanted to keep .

So the tunnel part the runs behind the front brace was saved , but when i tried to grind the factory welds front that brace , the tunnel that remains ( about 5 inches wide ) had to be cut to remove the remains of that brace furious

dammmmmmmmm! (those brace welds are under the tunnel )

same thing for the mid brace , there was some rust on the brace and the weld spots under the tunnel , so when i tried to grind that out , it broke

to make a long story short , my tunnel   is intact in front of the front brace going to the toe boards !

i just hope the two pans overlap   or but themselves together when they will be welded

on top of the remains of my trans tunnel ( i did keep the two tunnel parts that where separated by the braces )

the other problem is the mid brace , it is factory welded between the frame and the back of the rocker panel, so the brace was cut out , but the remains is still between the frame and rocker panel wich   is a tight spot !!!!! they run pretty close together !
i might have to alter my new brace to fit that spot ( at a 180.00   a piece i hate to cut in to them )
so i cant acces to grind it out the remains of the old brace disbelief

i will have to figure out something there in order to weld in my new mid brace

so if you plan to change the mid brace , you are better off doing a frame off !

the front one is easy , it is bolted to the frame with a body cushion !

where can i find those ???? any body know ??

and the back seat brace is accessible to weld on the back of the rocker panels also

so thats my story , i will post somme pictures of my problem spots tomorrow

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

quote

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the other problem is the mid brace , it is factory welded between the frame and the back of the rocker panel, so the brace was cut out , but the remains is still between the frame and rocker panel wich is a tight spot !!!!! they run pretty close together !
i might have to alter my new brace to fit that spot ( at a 180.00 a piece i hate to cut in to them )
so i cant acces to grind it out the remains of the old brace

_________________________________________________________________________________

Can you cut the new brace, then cut the old brace at a spot where you can access, then butt weld them and grind them to make it look nice? If I am picturing it correctly, I think that would be the best way to do it. I know it hurts to cut the new piece but what option do you have? I know you could undo the body mount bolts and lift the body, but trust me, that will give you a whole new pile of work that you won't want to do.

since 1983 · Poncho Master!

Carl , i think i wiil have to cut my new mid brace , because i cant imagine how i am going to remove the remains of the old one ( so the equivalent of the new one will probably cut out disbelief

to but weld to the old part behind the frame rail )

if your answer was about the brace part that runs under the tunnel ' i could of left the old brace there and but weld on both sides ( left and right ) the rest of the brace , BUT I THOUGHT IT WAS A CONSIDERABLE WEAK SPOT ON THAT BRACE

so the whole brace came off and my tunnel is in three parts now !!!! i still have a strong part from the middle of the front seat to the toe board ........at least

once the braces are in i will position the pans to see how they over lap ( hope they do so )   pictures are to come

by the way my english   is not perfect , ( i am french originaly , but brought up in toronto as a kid !!!!! ) living in the Montreal Qué area since .

ohhh   by the way , no i am not planning on lifting out the body.............no time for now !!

-- Edited by since 1983 on Wednesday 24th of March 2010 08:44:38 AM

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

Fake68 on this forum did pans in a 67 and I think he said they overlapped in the middle of the tunnel. Hopefully you have the same kind he has and then you will have enough metal to work with.

since 1983 · Poncho Master!

well i ripted the passenger side first and put in the pan to see where it comes to and it seemed to end pretty much on top of the floor pan

i might have a but weld situation here for the center part ( both pans together )

i have a local body man that works on antique cars quite a bit , he will be in tomorow to check out he car

i havent forgot those pictures to come !!!