Pontiac Parisienne 1969 in Bohol, Philippines

dualquadpete · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

RE: Pontiac Parisienne 1969 in Bohol, Philippines

hanspeter · Veteran Member

dualquadpete wrote:

YO Hanspeter,what degree T/Stat did you use. I run a 160F in my 64 Catalina. Boy somethings wrong there if it boils that quick!!! Next, don't try bending the fan blades, they are balanced, & if you don't get them all exactally the same it will shake like crazy & throw one of the blades through the rad, or your hood!!!! Is the heater still hooked up in car???If so what happens to temp. if you run with heater on??? This has me "bugged" want to find the answer to this!!!!!

Hi peter
thanks for Your soon response!

about heater: is disconnected. blind. look at the picture.

blades: copy! too dangerous! I let it be! thanks for the warning. by the way: the blades are fix, even no clutch!

I'm scarde, coz it can be, that this problem exist's already long time. the previous owner, a german, told me already about this. that's why, he installed a additional electric-fan aoutside the radiator.

the radiator is made in the phils, coz the car was assembled by YUTIVO. who tells me, that this wasn't the problem already long, long time ago.

the heater is disconnected, the outlets closed! even no aircon is installed.

the thermostat had about 86 degrees C.

I hope, that this explinations can help You. Don't get boerd, at the end it's MY problem. but, I'm happy, that You can feel my problem!

thanks

hanspeter

rarechev · Guru

how about a three or four core rad (larger) ?

cdnpont · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

How about some sort of homemade fan shroud combined with a better more efficiant 7 blade fan?

dualquadpete · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

Have you got a "good 16lb. rad cap on this??? what happens if you take cap off & idle engine, does it "blow coolant" out of rad??? Thinking "maybe" a blown head gasket???? or a blocked up engine block!! Still thinking on this one????

dualquadpete · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

Sent you a PM I just checked what 86 C T/Stat is in Fah. thats around 185.3 F [sorry I don't "do" metric"] Thats still pretty high temp T/stat for that climate. In the past I have used a "big flat washer" the size of the outside of T/stat. with a large centre hole in place of T/stat. to slow the flow but not temp. controlled. Check P/M for more ideas!!!!

hanspeter · Veteran Member

Hi peter

I'll send You now some pictures from the rad, the prop.

If I remove the rad.cap. I can see a movement. no oil in the coolant, no white smoke at the back. no sounds from broken cascet.

I distroyed now the thermostat. now I have a washer. ok? I try this one.

the rad has a size: 24 inch wide/21 high/2.1 deep.

the ignition couldn't be adjusted with a strobe. the mechanic used his ear. now: if we turn more to right side, the engine is more quiet and starts well. if we turn more left, it starts to be restless. wrong shootings. shell I reduce the turn to the right?

The rotor has 7 metallic blades.

attached are some pictures. hope, they can help.

rhanks a lot

hanspeter

hanspeter · Veteran Member

hi carl

please see the pictures above! it's a new rad. cap. if i dont close him really, it's the same with the temp. if I remove, I can see a movement, but it doesn't flush out.

regards

hanspeter

by the way:

Thanks to all of You, that You make my own problem also to Your own! It's a very nice experience for me!

hanspeter

rarechev · Guru

won't too much timing will make it run hot

69-Tin Indian · Guru

I have to agree with cdnpont that a shroud of some sort would help channel the air over the engine. Probably a transmission cooler wouldn't hurt either given the extreme temps down there.
I've had experience when hauling a trailer that in "drive" the truck would cook right up to the point
you could smell the engine paint, but if dropped to 2nd gear when climbing hills, it would cool off and once on a straight away when a hard pull wasn't needed, it would cool off again. One nice thing about it all though guys is, hanspeter has definitely come to the right place for advice! There
sure ain't no other website out there as in depth as this one when it comes to the Canadian Poncho
scene!

427carl · A Poncho Legend!

69-Tin Indian · Guru

AHA! Good pictures Carl! Scrap that shroud idea boys and girls! Back to square one. No point even suggesting a bag of ice cubes in the rad before setting out in the morning. Snicker. I'm sure
with all the other "good" advice, hanspeter will get it cooled off sooner rather than later.

hanspeter · Veteran Member

69-Tin Indian wrote:

No point even suggesting a bag of ice cubes in the rad before setting out in the morning. Snicker. I'm sure
with all the other "good" advice, hanspeter will get it cooled off sooner rather than later.

hi tin indian

really good idea with icecubes. biggrin

my problem with my cubes was, that they are square and too big for the hole!!! blankstare

I'm really happy, that so many people are now studying about MY problem. of course, in the philippines its maybe too hot. I never had a prob like this in switzerland with one of my 40 american cars.

have a nice day!

hanspeter

hanspeter · Veteran Member

hi

This AM i made some changes:

I found out, that the prop-blades are too far from the rad, coz the rad was not parallel to them. now, I made a distance from 1/2 inch, sothat the blades are more inside the SHROUD! (wo, I got now, what this word means. thanks.

the ignition more back. but I cant check it now, because it's cold. we had a rain. now only 26 degrees C; and the asphaltroads are also cold. yawn

I inform You maybe tomorrow, if it's working. If not, I follow another advice, to install a washer instead a thermostat. (I use the now demolished thermostat).

have a nice sunday!

hanspeter, who likes it HOT, but not in the Car!

67BBSD · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

engine timing is too far advanced or retarded ?

engine block is dirty restricting flow ?

use a thermostat but knock out the spring and plunger-or use no more that a 160 F

run the hoses through a clean heater core (hook up the heater) the coolant needs to flow that far-plus you could always pu the heater on to reduce engine heat.

16 lb rad cap

larger core radiator

working electric cooling fan at the front

solid bolt fan to the water pump-no clutch types

water pump is not moving the coolant fast enough-

soft heater or radiator hoses can collapse causing restriction and overheating

dualquadpete · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

OK Hanspeter, I see a shroud, & also you have a "clutch" fan. that could be faulty!!! 67 BBSD might be on the right line, if your upper & lower hoses are "soft & mushy" they will collapse [go flat] & stop the flow!!! Hope moving the fan closer helps, & also make sure your electric fan is "blowing" into rad not sucking the air out the front, sometimes it's easy to put a fan on & not check which way it's turning?? The broken T/Stat will be PERFECT for you with it's "GUTS" removed

cdnpont · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

Hanspeter,

I looked over all the postings about the "Overheating" issue and I've not seen it mentioned by you that the engine coolant actually boils over.

Too hot, but does it actually boil over? And how reliable and accurate is your temperature gauge?

I like Petes idea on the fan clutch and the electric fans direction.

Kurt S · Newbie

If the inside of the radiator has been cleaned out and the waterpump is pumping, then focus on the fans.
When the car is hot, the fan clutch should provide resistance so that the fan will turn. If not, replace the clutch.
I personally don't like the electric fan there - it blocks air flow. The OEM system should work great. If it's not, then the electric fan is just a band-aid covering up a problem.

The temperature rating of the thermostat only regulates when the thermostat opens. It does not affect the max operating temperature in any form.
And the system will run cooler with the thermostat removed. But on start-ups, it will take longer for the block to come to operating temperature (*that* is what the thermostat is for), causing some extra (minor) wear on the engine.

No guesses on the color codes on the tag?

Hans,
If you ever see *any* 67-69 Yutivo cars of any type, I would appreciate a picture of the VIN tag. Thanks!!

-- Edited by Kurt S on Sunday 21st of March 2010 11:15:12 AM

-- Edited by Kurt S on Sunday 21st of March 2010 11:16:15 AM

hanspeter · Veteran Member

67BBSD wrote:
hi

thanks. I'll answer directly, with another color:
hanspeter
engine timing is too far advanced or retarded ?
this adjustment is not yet serieous done. working on it, but no hightech available!
engine block is dirty restricting flow ?
block seams to be clean. we did it with w/chemicals
use a thermostat but knock out the spring and plunger-or use no more that a 160 F
thats my plan.
run the hoses through a clean heater core (hook up the heater) the coolant needs to flow that far-plus you could always pu the heater on to reduce engine heat.
the heater isn't there. removed. pls. see the one photo.
16 lb rad cap
it's a new one. no changes
larger core radiator
one of the last movements, coz not so easy to find this in the phils.
working electric cooling fan at the front
You can see the photo. there is one. ans working. but effektiv only, when low RPM of engine.

solid bolt fan to the water pump-no clutch types
it was already long time converted from clutch- to solid bolt!
water pump is not moving the coolant fast enough-

soft heater or radiator hoses can collapse causing restriction and overheating
we changed already. checked also, if it will close: it's ok.

hanspeter · Veteran Member

Hi peter
I'll answer the questions in red color directly: thanks
hanspeter

dualquadpete wrote:

OK Hanspeter, I see a shroud, & also you have a "clutch" fan.The clutch-fan was already long time converted zo solid bolt! that could be faulty!!! 67 BBSD might be on the right line, if your upper & lower hoses are "soft & mushy" they will collapse [go flat] & stop the flow!!! we changed already to new, more hard hoses! Hope moving the fan closer helps, & also make sure your electric fan is "blowing" into rad not sucking the air out the front, sometimes it's easy to put a fan on & not check which way it's turning??the electric fan is blowing into the rad, but only effectov, when engine has low rpm. The broken T/Stat will be PERFECT for you with it's "GUTS" removed.I check now, when the weather changes to "hot", if the moving of the rad more to the fan is working. next step will be the "broken" thermostat. make it "step by step".

hanspeter · Veteran Member

Hi kurt

let me answer directly in "red" color:

thanks again!
hanspeter

Kurt S wrote:

If the inside of the radiator has been cleaned out and the waterpump is pumping, then focus on the fans.
When the car is hot, the fan clutch should provide resistance so that the fan will turn. If not, replace the clutch.the clutch is already converted to solid bolt fan!
I personally don't like the electric fan there - it blocks air flow.I removed already the AC-radiator! since this time, its mutch better. this rad was covering 70% of the engine-rad! the electric-fan is turning, even off, when the original fan is working. The OEM system should work great. If it's not, then the electric fan is just a band-aid covering up a problem.the prev. owner told me already abaout the heatingproblem. he said, for low rpm's he installed the electric fan.

The temperature rating of the thermostat only regulates when the thermostat opens. It does not affect the max operating temperature in any form.i did it already with a new thermostat. more hot, coz flow reduced. somebody advised, to use like a "washer", to reduce the waterflow. I'll try it next time.
And the system will run cooler with the thermostat removed. But on start-ups, it will take longer for the block to come to operating temperature (*that* is what the thermostat is for), causing some extra (minor) wear on the engine.that's my experience in europe! but we dont have any really cold time in the phils. even no heater installed, the aircon already removed(i hate aircon).

No guesses on the color codes on the tag? sorry, I can't follow, what You mean. what is a "tag"? where I can find something, what You ask for?

Hans,
If you ever see *any* 67-69 Yutivo cars of any type, I would appreciate a picture of the VIN tag. Thanks!! OK. think, that VIN means Vehicle-Identification---? is "tag" the plater?. In bohol it's the only canadien, also american car!

-- Edited by Kurt S on Sunday 21st of March 2010 11:15:12 AM

-- Edited by Kurt S on Sunday 21st of March 2010 11:16:15 AM

carbuff2007 · Addicted!

If everything your told does not work, I would suggest knock out a couple of frost plugs and flush the block out, I've seen this happen before.

Kurt S · Newbie

Hans,
I was referring to the Yutivo plate that is on the firewall. VIN = Vehicle Identification Number.
If you ever see one in your travels..... :)

The clutch fan is a better design that the solid fan, but whatever works. Does the solid fan fit the shroud correctly? How much space between the shroud diameter and the fan diameter?

I forgot about the timing. You have to get it right cause it can generate major heat if it's retarded. Any timing light (used on all the cars before mid-80's) will help you set the timing.

dualquadpete · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

Hanspeter, What Cdnpont [mark] is asking here is a good point. Is the guage your using [dash gauge] electric,[wires going to it]?? or a mechanical,[ tube with coil around the tube] A mechanical guage is far more accurate!!! Is the engine getting so hot that it does boil over & "blow steam"????

hanspeter · Veteran Member

dualquadpete wrote:

Hanspeter, What Cdnpont [mark] is asking here is a good point. Is the guage your using [dash gauge] electric,[wires going to it]?? or a mechanical,[ tube with coil around the tube] A mechanical guage is far more accurate!!! Is the engine getting so hot that it does boil over & "blow steam"????

hi peter

I'll check this. the gauge was later added. It reacts immediately about changing RPM!
how correct it is???? that's a point.

now! the rad was never overnoiled. no steam.

last news(has to be cehecked again):

I changed the upperportion of the rad more to the wings! Found out, that the wings on the upper part are more autside the shroud then in the lower part. means, the rad was not in line with the engine.

anyway, the fan was later modified to solid-bolts. looks, like the distance to the rad is a little bit too big. (and i closed also the resulted distance between chassis an rad. **

result:

the temp. on the same way, same conditions, decreased !!!! now 10 to 5 degrees F lower then befor. maximum today was 215 !

tomorrow I check it again. for me looks, that now more air is sucked by the fan. even the former effect. that by encreasing the RPM, the temp. is going down, is now minimised!

I hope, that was it!

I'll inform all of You helpful friends about the result, when it's 100% clear.

**another chance: if not enough, I extend the axel from the fan about 3/4 inch, sothat the fan is nearer the rad.

have a nice evening.

thanks

hanspeter