1964 Pontiac GTO Coupe

Turn2Stone · Poncho Master!

Road trip this Friday

427carl · A Poncho Legend!

I think its worth $25.000.00 Take 20 cash in a bag/box /case and put 3 g in your pocket Leave trailer out of site Make sure its as nice as it appears and then load it up..

Ghost Post · Poncho Master!

I take it you've already determined it's a genuine GTO and not a Lemans by the tags also how the cowl tag jives w/ Vin and that the car belongs w/ these tags etc?.

Is there PHS documents for this car?.
If yes, did you or the seller purchase them from PHS and have you seen them or copys?.

If you're comfortable w/ the results of your investigating, don't be afraid to give a waaaay lower offer as it's surprising what projects can sell for in this market especially if the seller has another deal in the works...or an angry woman on their hands!.

Good luck w/ everything!.
~

427carl · A Poncho Legend!

It was established, it is a recreation.. and yes show the cash to the wife and let her twist his arm

If it was a 'real" GTO I think you'd need another 10-15 grand

-- Edited by 427carl on Tuesday 17th of August 2010 10:45:08 AM

68post · Poncho Master!

I agree with both comments. If it's a real GTO, I agree with a value of 25G.
However, I wouldn't hide the trailer, so the seller knows you're serious, and not just wasting time. Plus of course PHS documents are an absolute plus.
Happy hunting and have a safe trip. I'd love to see this car if you get it.

Ghost Post · Poncho Master!

I didn't read the ad or see the recreation note..
Great deal if that's what you're after but it's surprising what that kinda' dough can buy in today's market!.

~

Turn2Stone · Poncho Master!

Thanks Guys....its amazing what a little reassurance can do from people you've never met. People here know way more than me, but there is no such thing as a 65 GTO, it was a Lemans option in 1965, so this car is a Lemans but without the factory GTO, and it has always been stated as a 'recreation'. I agree that it would be much more if it were, and it makes little difference to me(until I sell it). Apparently he has 36k into it with receipts, and cashed in favors to get all the chrome done. The seller is aware of my renting a trailer from his hometown, I will probably not pick it up until we've reached a deal. It is PHS documented.....and I havent seen the documents yet. Apparently the seller is at his rock bottom price, but I will be prepared to come home without it for any number of reasons, I'm just nervous thats all. I have a few past deals that I should have done differently, on less expesive cars.

Turn2Stone · Poncho Master!

Ghost Post wrote:

I didn't read the ad or see the recreation note..
Great deal if that's what you're after but it's surprising what that kinda' dough can buy in today's market!.

~

yessir.....I hope I can live with my decision, thats why I am nervous. I expect that I couldnt build one for the same money, and the seller is taking a serious hit.(If all is legit)

427carl · A Poncho Legend!

You know you can't replace it for 23 and its a rust free car to start, not full of new panels welded in... These cars, normally don't go down much, in this price range...5 years from now it will be a steal

MC · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

Turn2Stone wrote:

Ghost Post wrote:

I didn't read the ad or see the recreation note..
Great deal if that's what you're after but it's surprising what that kinda' dough can buy in today's market!.

~

yessir.....I hope I can live with my decision, thats why I am nervous. I expect that I couldnt build one for the same money, and the seller is taking a serious hit.(If all is legit)

If I can throw my 2¢ in here, the ball is in your court as it is more difficult to sell a non-running project for big $ than a finished car. While the seller will likely take a financial hit in the sale, that's the way it goes when selling an unfinished car.

I'm no expert for sure, but I will say if it were me I'd make sure to check out as much as you can. Receipts are definitely a good indicator of the work done, but also I'd check the quality of the work done, as anything that's not done to your standards will likely cost you time and money to correct it. The same with the parts situation - make sure that everything is there - otherwise it will cost you more again in the long run to finish it. Anything missing should be bargaining leverage for you, in my opinion.

I know people usually don't buy a project with intentions to sell it, but sometimes the unexpected occurs. Keep in mind that a clone will bring less than a numbers GTO in the long run, so try to protect yourself so you don't take a bath on it if you ever have to sell it for whatever reason.

Not trying to sound negative, these are just thoughts that popped into my head as I was reading the thread - I'm sure it's nothing that you haven't already thought of yourself!

Good luck with it!

-- Edited by MC on Tuesday 17th of August 2010 01:13:46 PM

Turn2Stone · Poncho Master!

Hey Mark. Thanks for the oversight. So many things can go wrong, and others are very subjective. Just because its fresh paint, doesnt mean that it doesnt need paint work.....everything needs to be inspected. He put my mind at ease somewhat through our lengthy conversations. Assuming that everything is as stated, he is a VERY meticulous man, nearing retirement from firefighting, and has an opportunity that he is interested in pursuing other than the car, and an all round good guy. He is aware that I will accept nothing less than my complete satisfaction.

Oh yea, I'm not sure if you were referring to projects in general, or this car, but this is more than drivable, just the interior,side windows and chrome are left. I'm sure there are a few other details, but I'll be driving this on Saturday before I buy it. It is wired, and dash is in. He has a dummy seat in for the test drives. He paid $7500 for the "engine rebuild and tripower setup and tune". I'll see what that included in more detail when I get there.

MC · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

Turn2Stone wrote:

Hey Mark. Thanks for the oversight. So many things can go wrong, and others are very subjective. Just because its fresh paint, doesnt mean that it doesnt need paint work.....everything needs to be inspected. He put my mind at ease somewhat through our lengthy conversations. Assuming that everything is as stated, he is a VERY meticulous man, nearing retirement from firefighting, and has an opportunity that he is interested in pursuing other than the car, and an all round good guy. He is aware that I will accept nothing less than my complete satisfaction.

Oh yea, I'm not sure if you were referring to projects in general, or this car, but this is more than drivable, just the interior,side windows and chrome are left. I'm sure there are a few other details, but I'll be driving this on Saturday before I buy it. It is wired, and dash is in. He has a dummy seat in for the test drives. He paid $7500 for the "engine rebuild and tripower setup and tune". I'll see what that included in more detail when I get there.

Sounds like you have your bases covered, and the more I read about it the better it seems! I tend to be overcautious when dealing with cars as I've seen so much "wrong" over the years I almost expect it. However, when you find one that's really done well it's worth every penny - and it sounds like what you're describing has been done well.

I was talking in generalities about projects in general, but I'll admit I didn't read that ad carefully enough to realize that this car is running and quite far along, actually... it's sounding better yet again.

I really hope it works out for you - it's pretty exciting when you find what you really want! I hope do the same someday!

Looking forward to the updates!

-Mark

MC · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

Just saw this ad when browsing the Calgary kijiji site. $35,000 for orig. paint but not orig. drivetrain. Now I'm seeing what the numbers cars are going for - it makes a $23K almost-done California car look pretty darn good. I never realized what big money they are going for these days.

http://calgary.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-classic-cars-1964-Pontiac-GTO-Coupe-W0QQAdIdZ222782784

1964 Pontiac GTO Coupe

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Date Listed	09-Aug-10
Last Edited	09-Aug-10
Price	Please contact
Address	Calgary, AB, Canada View map
For Sale By	Owner
Make	Pontiac
Model	GTO
Year	1964
Kilometers	57000
Body Type	Coupe (2 door)
Transmission	Manual
Colour	Burgundy
Drivetrain	Rear-wheel drive (RWD)
Fuel Type	Gasoline

1964 Pontiac GTO Sport Coupe,,With Original Build Sheet,,Protecto Plate etc

This 64 GTO is an Original Survivor,,Including Original Paint,,Interior etc.

The Body is Totally Rust-Free and Garaged Most of it's Life.

Interior is Black,,,All Original and Very Clean.

The Original 389 4bbl Engine and M-20 Muncie is no longer with the GTO and has Been Replaced with a Very Strong 1969 Pontiac 400 with Nogular Iron Borg Warner ST-10 Which has Run Consistant 13;70 ET's.

This 64 GTO is a Very Rare Example of the 1st Year GTO,the Original Muscle Car in Original Non-Restored Condition.

Also Option to Sell as a Roller with 1964 421 Engine and Dated 1964 Muncie.

$35000 obo,,,Serious Inquiries Only Please!!

Located in Edmonton

~

[Pic posted is when engine was removed for upgrades,,,explaining why the front end was sitting so high in pic,,presently GTO is a runner]

eeluddy · Uber Guru

Asking price and selling price are 2 different things. 99% of ads on kijiji are WAYYYYY over priced. The ads are free so a lot of guys are just trolling for suckers or trying to boost their own ego. Real world prices on incomplete projects are closer to .50 cents on the $1.00. You have to ask yourself if its that close to completion, why hasn't he finished it himself? Time,ambition and money are legitimite excuses, but sometimes it because the owner is not happy with the way it has turned out so far. I have experience buying incomplete projects in the past and they never turned out the way I expected.
The fact it is a "clone" GTO lowers the value signifigantly also. Don't mean to burst your bubble and I hope its a nice car, but there are way more cars for sale than cash buyers right now so you can be very very picky and get a turn key driver for that money.

-- Edited by eeluddy on Tuesday 17th of August 2010 04:37:06 PM

Turn2Stone · Poncho Master!

Hey Earl, Ive asked myself them same questions. I am skeptical and appreciate anyone playing devils advocate in a large purchase. Its easy to get blinders on and be in denial. I like the answers that I've found so far about this car.

I would assume that the more complete the car is, the closer to its actual value it becomes. I was NOT looking for a project, but this would be a labor of love with no further cash or special skills required to complete. I have little knowledge of the industry, but have researched a little and it seems to be fairly priced. The sellers situation is dictating his decision, and he certainly isnt giving it away. It doesnt jump out as way overpriced , it is also listed in the Auto Trader for the same amount. The decision will be made on the spot I guess. I am skeptical of everything I've read and heard about it, as anyone should be. I would actually welcome anyone who could burst my bubble with a good enough reason. I will look for a reason not to buy right up until I own it or leave. I agree with you kijiji ads, for the same reasons but, thats still leaves a few hundred cars across Canada, so I'll hope this is in the 1%.!

Turn2Stone · Poncho Master!

Mark that 64 is NICE! I cant say if its worth the money, but I like it!

jmont64 · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

I'd agree with Earl in that there are lots of cars out there and you are in a great position. I can't remember when you first posted how much you were willing to spend but I think you are in a great spot and even if you go look at it and walk away it doesn't mean you won't end up with it. As I've got older I think I've gotten alot better deals by showing that I am interested but still not afraid to walk away even if it is to think about it to make a good decision. It sure seems to help on the negotiating end. As far as older GTOs there was a 64 for sale at last weeks car show here in Kelowna that is as nice as any one I've ever seen. It had original power train with a 4 speed and had been restored to perfection. Had a sad story to it in that the fellow that restored it had some surgery or something and is now in a care home. His dad and sister were there selling it for him and were some of the nicest people you could ever meet. They are asking 40 thousand but I didn't ask him how much they had into it. Like I said it was gorgeous and I think they will get it even though that sounds like a high price. It only has a couple thousand miles on it after the work was done. If that doesn't work out you might be interested in a trip across the country.

gparis7 · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

MC wrote:

Just saw this ad when browsing the Calgary kijiji site. $35,000 for orig. paint but not orig. drivetrain. Now I'm seeing what the numbers cars are going for - it makes a $23K almost-done California car look pretty darn good. I never realized what big money they are going for these days.

http://calgary.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-classic-cars-1964-Pontiac-GTO-Coupe-W0QQAdIdZ222782784

1964 Pontiac GTO Coupe
Share
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Print
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View larger image
Date Listed 09-Aug-10
Last Edited 09-Aug-10
Price Please contact
Address Calgary, AB, Canada
View map
For Sale By Owner
Make Pontiac
Model GTO
Year 1964
Kilometers 57000
Body Type Coupe (2 door)
Transmission Manual
Colour Burgundy
Drivetrain Rear-wheel drive (RWD)
Fuel Type Gasoline
1964 Pontiac GTO Sport Coupe,,With Original Build Sheet,,Protecto Plate etc
This 64 GTO is an Original Survivor,,Including Original Paint,,Interior etc.
The Body is Totally Rust-Free and Garaged Most of it's Life.
Interior is Black,,,All Original and Very Clean.
The Original 389 4bbl Engine and M-20 Muncie is no longer with the GTO and has Been Replaced with a Very Strong 1969 Pontiac 400 with Nogular Iron Borg Warner ST-10 Which has Run Consistant 13;70 ET's.
This 64 GTO is a Very Rare Example of the 1st Year GTO,the Original Muscle Car in Original Non-Restored Condition.
Also Option to Sell as a Roller with 1964 421 Engine and Dated 1964 Muncie.
$35000 obo,,,Serious Inquiries Only Please!!
Located in Edmonton
~
[Pic posted is when engine was removed for upgrades,,,explaining why the front end was sitting so high in pic,,presently GTO is a runner]

The 64 2 door post GTO sure looks good!

65wagon · Poncho Master!

i found out when i checked mine out the california cars dont distinguish between lemans or GTO on the cowl tag and you guessed it mine from california

455gto · Poncho Master!

http://cgi.ebay.ca/Pontiac-Tempest-/160470005946?pt=US_Cars_Trucks

I think I'd bring this to him. You could pick this up for $25,000 and it's finished.
$25,000 is top dollar for a Lemans - Tempest . This one is a Dealer as well so tac on more money.
Also the Tri Power set-up is a pain in the ass if it's not right.
I'm sorry, but I like the Tempest, because it's together.....look at all the pic's
Grind him on the price if you want the Lemans. Dosen't matter how much he put into it. It's what people are willing to pay and you don't want to lose money if you sell it.

-- Edited by 455gto on Wednesday 18th of August 2010 01:02:06 AM

67SD396 · Poncho Master!

The car on ebay looks to be a very good deal and it would be a great cruise home across the US in that baby.

Turn2Stone · Poncho Master!

65wagon wrote:

i found out when i checked mine out the california cars dont distinguish between lemans or GTO on the cowl tag and you guessed it mine from california

I would hope that the PHS docs or build sheet should clear that up. In my case, it didnt have the GTO option from the factory, I havent confirmed that, but quite unlikely a seller would leave that out.

Turn2Stone · Poncho Master!

455gto wrote:

http://cgi.ebay.ca/Pontiac-Tempest-/160470005946?pt=US_Cars_Trucks

I think I'd bring this to him. You could pick this up for $25,000 and it's finished.
$25,000 is top dollar for a Lemans - Tempest . This one is a Dealer as well so tac on more money.
Also the Tri Power set-up is a pain in the ass if it's not right.
I'm sorry, but I like the Tempest, because it's together.....look at all the pic's
Grind him on the price if you want the Lemans. Dosen't matter how much he put into it. It's what people are willing to pay and you don't want to lose money if you sell it.

-- Edited by 455gto on Wednesday 18th of August 2010 01:02:06 AM

I will definitely bring the ad for my benefit, and a reality check for the seller. I have seen the car too in my searches. The ghost flames excluded it instantly for me. The front end also looks completely different from the 65 Lemans. I have a few other reasons, but the ad is still good info to have. Theres no denying the condition appears fantastic. Thank You.

Turn2Stone · Poncho Master!

I am second guessing myself at this point, but fully intend to buy this or another car very soon. Whatever I drag/drive home, I will have to live with the decision. I am taking advice locally as well, and preparing myself for those who are waiting to tell me what a better deal I could have had, and what a fool I am. I asked for it, by being so public with it. If you are in this category, you'll have to take a number.....family and friends first!

MC · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

Just thought I'd toss in a few links of '65s that I found randomly. Hopefully they help in the decision-making process:

65 GTO:
http://kingston.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-classic-cars-1965-Pontiac-GTO-Coupe-2-door-W0QQAdIdZ222639342

65 GTO:
http://calgary.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-classic-cars-1965-Pontiac-GTO-Coupe-2-door-W0QQAdIdZ221665513

A 65 GTO clone with some custom touches:
http://lethbridge.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-classic-cars-1965-Pontiac-GTO-Coupe-2-door-W0QQAdIdZ218020254

A decent 65 GTO post car for about the same money - it's in Oregon, though:
http://portland.craigslist.org/clc/cto/1900848393.html

Here's a 65 at a dealer in OK for $26K US:
http://oklahomacity.craigslist.org/ctd/1899899341.html

A 65 GTO in Cali:
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/cto/1900991040.html

65 GTO in Nebraska $17K US:
http://omaha.craigslist.org/cto/1898739268.html

65 GTO in Iowa with later 455 $19.5K US:
http://desmoines.craigslist.org/cto/1897864075.html

Here's a '65 GTO clone in Maine for $20K US - it's a ragtop with 389, tri-power, and 4-speed:
http://maine.craigslist.org/cto/1896880993.html

A 65 in Cali with 455:
http://sacramento.craigslist.org/cto/1895042850.html

65 GTO in Florida - just restored needs minor finishing - 389, tri-power 4-speed $29K US:
http://miami.craigslist.org/brw/cto/1894510823.html

65 GTO in Ohio bid up to $20K US on ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180544938150

65 GTO from Cali bid up to $10K - would need paint and other work:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290462129020

Another finished ebay auction:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140437730414

There's a few nice ones in there - hopefully it'll help you draw some conclusions. For me, that '65 Ragtop in Maine for $20K would deserve a look...