Chevy Tech's !! Need some help with 2 speed and flex plate

grande jim · Guru

Chevy Tech's !! Need some help with 2 speed and flex plate

67Poncho · Uber Guru

Hey Jim!!! It should have 2 sets of holes for the smaller and larger converters.

Also, I just love the reduction starters that come as original equiptment on these trucks.

427carl · A Poncho Legend!

Question:
1-Do I need an externally balanced flexplate? I know it's a one piece seal one, but I thought all 350s were internally balanced. Also, I think the newer ones are 168 teeth, right?
QUOTE]

Answer:
One-piece-seal 350's are externally balanced, but the external off-balance part is the flywheel, with the damper being neutral-balanced just like on an older engine.

Both sizes of flexplates are available for the one-piece-seal ('86-up) 350's, both OEM and aftermarket.

grande jim · Guru

Now that's interesting....I did not know you can get a small flexplate to fit the one piece seal Vortec..niether did my machine shop. That's why I really appreciate you guys!! Thank you!!

427carl · A Poncho Legend!

I would have bet the the sbc 400 and bbc 454 were the "only ones" needing externally balanced flexplate

we all learn

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

If you need a 153 tooth external flexplate, you just order for a 94 Impala LT1. I run a 65 Acadian 6 cylinder starter on my LT1's.

67Poncho and I don't agree on those reduction starters!!! I think of them as nothing but grief!

-- Edited by Carl Stevenson on Thursday 20th of January 2011 11:22:44 PM

grande jim · Guru

No, as in your post....The external off ballance part is the fly wheel...so they add weight to the flex plate and ballance it. Because they are internally ballanced and an unballanced flexplate will damage the motor...or so was it explained to me..because I was told I could not use my Unballaced original flexplate.
Clear as mud isn't it?

-- Edited by grande jim on Thursday 20th of January 2011 11:29:55 PM

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

Your original won't even bolt on Jim.

Do you want to call me, I can go over this with you?

67Poncho · Uber Guru

Carl Stevenson wrote:

67Poncho and I don't agree on those reduction starters!!! I think of them as nothing but grief!

-- Edited by Carl Stevenson on Thursday 20th of January 2011 11:22:44 PM

I have had all good luck with mine and on customer vehicles. Many here have upwards of 200,000 still with the original starters. Yes, some will give trouble just like everything..... I agree..

I have that starter on 3 of my cars and it will be on 2 more this summer. Even my '70 with the 454 when out on a hot day, engine hot, it spins it like she was starting for the first time in the morning... and with headers to boot... Get that with a conventional 200 pound old style starter!!!!

Maybe it is a corrosion condition... I know Manitoba and Alberta use more salt on the roads than here.... Maybe??

And I did know about the 2 size ring gears but never even thought of it... Slipping...!

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

I have driven 4 LT1 vehicles and it's either 2 or 3 of them I've had starter failure on! To me, they always sound "slow". I guess it goes back to my dislike of those Chrysler starter from the 60's and 70's when I was a kid. We used to make fun of those things.

Old dog, new trick I guess!

We sure had a lot of trouble when they first came out on the pickups. Was it 1995, I think? In the winter they would just click on a cold morning. We had a customer come in, pick up his brand new 4x4, took it home, parked it in the unheated shed and next morning, click click click. Yes, he was amused when he called us that morning.....

Anyway, maybe I just see the failures and don't realize how many good ones are out there.

grande jim · Guru

Carl Stevenson wrote:

Your original won't even bolt on Jim.

Do you want to call me, I can go over this with you?

PM sent

67Poncho · Uber Guru

That is how I got my starters..... The sales people would wash the truck then stick it outside in -25 weather... Next morning like you say, click X 3.... Warranty.... Then I would stick an old core in the box, say thank-you and it was in my lunch box....

I use to tell them all the time not to wash and stick the truck outside but they are salesmen!!! Then a light went off in my head.... Wait a minute... sure!!! Go ahead, wash it... I started salavating... (lol)

-- Edited by 67Poncho on Friday 21st of January 2011 12:01:25 AM

grande jim · Guru

67Poncho wrote:

That is how I got my starters..... The sales people would wash the truck then stick it outside in -25 weather... Next morning like you say, click X 3.... Warranty.... Then I would stick an old core in the box, say thank-you and it was in my lunch box....

I use to tell them all the time not to wash and stick the truck outside but they are salesmen!!! Then a light went off in my head.... Wait a minute... sure!!! Go ahead, wash it... I started salavating... (lol)

-- Edited by 67Poncho on Friday 21st of January 2011 12:01:25 AM

SO...... just how many extra's do you have?

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

grande jim wrote:

Carl Stevenson wrote:

Your original won't even bolt on Jim.

Do you want to call me, I can go over this with you?

PM sent

Replied Jim.

67Poncho · Uber Guru

grande jim wrote:
SO...... just how many extra's do you have?

I have 2 for sure.... They will be going on both my wagons this summer...

Another thing with these starters, they draw less current at the solenoid than the full size ones. I had trouble with both my 2+2's not cranking at all hot at times and I would have to cross the solenoid to get them to spin.. Put the reduction in and no more issues.....

Old wiring and contacts at the fire wall.

I had to add a relay to my '66 Laurentian wagon this past summer for that same reason... I will remove it this summer when I toss in the reduction....

-- Edited by 67Poncho on Friday 21st of January 2011 12:18:11 AM

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

67Poncho wrote:

grande jim wrote:
SO...... just how many extra's do you have?

Another thing with these starters, they draw less current at the solenoid than the full size ones. I had trouble with both my 2+2's not cranking at all hot at times and I would have to cross the solenoid to get them to spin.. Put the reduction in and no more issues.....

Old wiring and contacts at the fire wall.

Same issue on my 65 Acadian. I plan to dig in to that this summer, time permitting. It's got to be an easy fix. Just have to find where the problem is, likely old corroded connectors or bad wiring.

67Poncho · Uber Guru

I believe most of that problem has to do with one smaller power wire coming in an supplying everything in the car...

Another thing I will do this summer is to add relays to the headlights so the switch doesn't take the brunt of it........ Plus add a heavier gauge from the alternator to the horn relay and from the relay to the battery junction......

-- Edited by 67Poncho on Friday 21st of January 2011 12:17:41 AM

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

Years ago, I added a starter relay like you mention, instant cure.

However, I removed it last winter when I did the 327 4 speed installation. At the time I did the relay, I didn't have a digital volt meter like I do know. I plan to test and hopefully find the bad area. I am guessing it's the ignition switch or the firewall connector.

I never thought about it being the small wire for power. Good idea.

67Poncho · Uber Guru

Carl Stevenson wrote:

Years ago, I added a starter relay like you mention, instant cure.

However, I removed it last winter when I did the 327 4 speed installation. At the time I did the relay, I didn't have a digital volt meter like I do now. I plan to test and hopefully find the bad area. I am guessing it's the ignition switch or the firewall connector.

I never thought about it being the small wire for power. Good idea.

They are definately tiny in comparison to todays for sure!!

timbuk · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

so vincent these starters you talk of are gm starters 95 and up? for the big ring gear? thanx timbuk

67Poncho · Uber Guru

timbuk wrote:

so vincent these starters you talk of are gm starters 95 and up? for the big ring gear? thanx timbuk

Yes and yes!!! They list for $288 new but shake that partsman for a little better deal!!!

-- Edited by 67Poncho on Friday 21st of January 2011 09:30:58 AM

427carl · A Poncho Legend!

I bought the HD old school starter for the Chief at Car Quest 88.00 works like a charm
the newer starters are on my truck and Suburban, and are ok but I sold some for race cars and they ATE them

67Poncho · Uber Guru

The full size AC Delco heavy (times 2) duty unit sells for $107 full list as well....

I guess it was and is cheaper for me to install the reduction type as they were free to me at the time!!!

grande jim · Guru

Problem solved...Spoke with the local Trany shop owner....The 168 tooth flexplate is a (ballanced flex plate) and must be used on the Vortec 350 or you can do serious damage to your motor. It comes with 2 bolt patterns and will bolt up to my 2 speed powerglide torque converter. Then you just use the newer style starter...and Bob's your uncle.