1969 Pontiac 2+2 427/390 Convertible Barn find - But this one a 4-speed

davepl · Poncho Master!

1969 Pontiac 2+2 427/390 Convertible Barn find - But this one a 4-speed

seventy2plus2 · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

davepl wrote:
P9B19 is, I think,

P Muncie Four Speed (Yay!)
9 1969
B Feb
18 19

In prior years BK was a 3.08 posi, so I think:
BK 3.08 Posi
02 February
28 28
K - Plant? I can't figure this part out.

-- Edited by davepl on Thursday 8th of December 2016 10:08:45 PM

You've got the transmission decoded right.

3.08 seems high for the 4 speed car (and I don't see BK in my books for '68 or '69), I would have suspected something of the sort of 3.31's. Also, 3.08's are 10 bolts, 3.07's are 12 bolts.

I'm wondering if the first digit for the diff is a D, which would be 3.55's. I'm getting conflicting info whether a DK is a 10 bolt or 12 bolt. I'm sure the car would have had a 12 bolt.

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

Yes, I am betting 3.31 or 3.55. Pretty sure it won't be any higher than that. Especially in a B body!

davepl · Poncho Master!

No one seems to be able to decode a BK axle post-1966, so maybe they're Canada-only, some batch of diffs, but the were made contemporaneously with the car in Feb so that wouldn't make sense.

So far as I know, with the L36 it should be:

3-speed manual: 3.31

4-speed manual: 3.31

Powerglide: Not avail

TH400: 2.56 (Holy cow that's some steep gearing!)

So I presume the car has 3.31 gears and posi.

-- Edited by davepl on Friday 9th of December 2016 02:34:10 PM

bjburnout · Uber Guru

davepl wrote:
P9B19 is, I think,

P Muncie Four Speed (Yay!)
9 1969
B Feb
18 19

In prior years BK was a 3.08 posi, so I think:
BK 3.08 Posi
02 February
28 28
K - Plant? I can't figure this part out.

............K - MacKinnon Industries - St. Catharines, On.....believe they used K on engine blocks
maybe rears as well?????

davepl · Poncho Master!

Tracked down the original owner, he got in touch with me this morning! Score! Now I'm hoping he'll give me some dirt on why he ordered the car this way, or how it came to be perhaps. And ideally, maybe a period photo (dare to dream, but I've done it before!).

gtodrive · Guru

So, when do you bring it home?

seventy2plus2 · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

davepl wrote:
Tracked down the original owner, he got in touch with me this morning! Score! Now I'm hoping he'll give me some dirt on why he ordered the car this way, or how it came to be perhaps. And ideally, maybe a period photo (dare to dream, but I've done it before!).

Very cool. I presume you did it through the Protect-o-Plate info.

davepl · Poncho Master!

I can't get to the car until spring (it's snowed in in Northern Canada, way up north where I discovered it frozen in time like a WW2 bomber), so can't find out much more until spring. But yes, I tracked the owner down through an unusual name on the protecto-plate. Just sent him an email and he replied, as easy as that (more or less).

MoboMac · Poncho Master!

So.....have you actually made the DEAL?

davepl · Poncho Master!

Nope, just a general understanding of an intent to purchase and a desire to sell on his part, and he'd like me to have it because he knows I restore to a high level and won't part it out to make a COPO Camaro. We've talked price, we're in the same ballpark.

But by no means is it a done deal yet! And I don't even know if it's a roller or can be made into one.

seventy2plus2 · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

davepl wrote:
But yes, I tracked the owner down through an unusual name on the protecto-plate. Just sent him an email and he replied, as easy as that (more or less).

Same deal as with my 2+2 convertible. The original owner from the Protect-O-Plate was still listed in the Calgary phone book. I called him up, and took the car over to him for a look-see. This was a year or so after I bought it.

MoboMac · Poncho Master!

davepl wrote:
Nope, just a general understanding of an intent to purchase and a desire to sell on his part, and he'd like me to have it because he knows I restore to a high level and won't part it out to make a COPO Camaro. We've talked price, we're in the same ballpark.

But by no means is it a done deal yet! And I don't even know if it's a roller or can be made into one.

Well....it sounds like it will be yours....if you choose......stay on him....

Elroy · Poncho Master!

Those Edmonton Dealers were pretty aggressive in what they ordered back then. The 67 2+2 427 ragtop I owned was ordered by the dealer in Leduc then transferred to Jenner in Edm. ( thanks Jmont for the emblem !). This 69 car is ditto only if it had a white interior! Wonder which dealer ? These 2 cars belong together one day, plus the red and white 68 coupe that was found in Calgary lately ! Three four speed 427 cars there plus the ones in Ontario . How many 4 speed 427 cars are documented as found ?

seventy2plus2 · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

His documentation from Oshawa indicates the selling dealer as Northgate Pontiac Buick GMC in Edmonton.

davepl · Poncho Master!

It originally stayed in Edmonton 5-6 years (per the original owner) and was indeed purchased there. I haven't heard back from him yet as to whether he ordered the car or (as I assume) bought it from dealer stock.

I think it was the dealership (or Pontiac itself) that must have spec'd the car this way, and it would have been an expensive car at the time. So I think it sat for a long time almost until the 70s were out and then he probably got a deal on it. Just conjecture on my part.

davepl · Poncho Master!

Still waiting for the snow to melt up in Edmonton, but he confirmed it's a roller (tires are likely flat). It's been apart, so it's a literal basket case, but at least it's all sitting on the chassis.

MoboMac · Poncho Master!

Let's just hope.....that nobody has pilfered any parts....

Once things get taken apart.....It's funny how things starts to evaporate...

-- Edited by MoboMac on Friday 3rd of March 2017 03:12:03 PM

davepl · Poncho Master!

That's a good point. I'm having a knowledgeable friend/restorer go look at it for me, and I want to send a list of parts "made from unobtanium". I figure the hardest parts to find are:

- 2+2 side Louvres
- Side marker lights
- Rally wheel caps
- 2 front 2+2 emblems
- Rear 2+2 emblem and "Pontiac" badge for trunk
- 427 Emblems

Then there are parts that are tough to find but that were used in the US, so they're not as bad, but would be nice if they're all there:

- Buckets
- Console and shifter
- Engine air cleaner
- Rally wheels

What else should I have him confirm as present and accounted for?

-- Edited by davepl on Friday 3rd of March 2017 07:45:43 PM

seventy2plus2 · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

I've got the buckets and back seat from a 70 2+2 rag if you need them.

MoboMac · Poncho Master!

Well I'm sure this stuff is ALL on your check list......but confirm partial vin stamps.... on block and transmission......as well as p/n's and date codes on ALL engine parts specific to that year and particular engine....

When I'm negotiating on a RARE "soup can car".....any important parts.... wrong or missing... are a good negotiating lever....

Make sure the # on the VIN tag ...matches the title......and the cowl tag is present.....and undamaged....

Also it's a good idea to check the level of the squirter fluid.....and make sure that it's the correct color.... biggrin

Canadian Poncho · A Poncho Legend!

There's a set of NOS side markers for sale on the forum:
canadianponcho.activeboard.com/t63275462/1969-b-body-side-marker-lamps/

gtodrive · Guru

davepl wrote:
That's a good point. I'm having a knowledgeable friend/restorer go look at it for me, and I want to send a list of parts "made from unobtanium". I figure the hardest parts to find are:

- 2+2 side Louvres
- Side marker lights
- Rally wheel caps
- 2 front 2+2 emblems
- Rear 2+2 emblem and "Pontiac" badge for trunk
- 427 Emblems

Then there are parts that are tough to find but that were used in the US, so they're not as bad, but would be nice if they're all there:

- Buckets
- Console and shifter
- Engine air cleaner
- Rally wheels

What else should I have him confirm as present and accounted for?

-- Edited by davepl on Friday 3rd of March 2017 07:45:43 PM

I have some side louvers if you are short any. I also have a set of the side marker lenses and bezels. The side 2+2 emblems might be a different part number, however, they are identical to a '67 and are reproduced. The trunk 2+2 is the same as a '65 and is also reproduced, you would still have to come up with the "pontiac" emblem.

davepl · Poncho Master!

Thanks for the info, didn't know they were the same as 67/65. That helps a great deal, as I imagine they'll be rough.

I put my NOS 427 emblems on my black 2+2, so I hope they're in decent shape and not missing on this one. I bet those are getting tough to find.

-- Edited by davepl on Saturday 4th of March 2017 03:13:36 PM

seventy2plus2 · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

gtodrive wrote:
davepl wrote:
That's a good point. I'm having a knowledgeable friend/restorer go look at it for me, and I want to send a list of parts "made from unobtanium". I figure the hardest parts to find are:

- 2+2 side Louvres
- Side marker lights
- Rally wheel caps
- 2 front 2+2 emblems
- Rear 2+2 emblem and "Pontiac" badge for trunk
- 427 Emblems

Then there are parts that are tough to find but that were used in the US, so they're not as bad, but would be nice if they're all there:

- Buckets
- Console and shifter
- Engine air cleaner
- Rally wheels

What else should I have him confirm as present and accounted for?

-- Edited by davepl on Friday 3rd of March 2017 07:45:43 PM
I have some side louvers if you are short any. I also have a set of the side marker lenses and bezels. The side 2+2 emblems might be a different part number, however, they are identical to a '67 and are reproduced. The trunk 2+2 is the same as a '65 and is also reproduced, you would still have to come up with the "pontiac" emblem.

I'm not a 69 expert, but I'm pretty sure the 2+2 side emblems are unique to 69. They have the elongated + signs. And I think that while the trunk 2+2 emblems look the same as prior years, they studs are in different places.