wasn't somebody here looking for a 69 Pontiac 4 door hardtop?

MoboMac · Poncho Master!

wasn't somebody here looking for a 69 Pontiac 4 door hardtop?

CdnGMfan · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

RE: wasn't somebody here....

cdnpont · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

The car really looks to be in decent shape, the trunk pan, while showing surface rust, doesn't appear too be bad over the #6 mount. A typically bad area.

Just for fun I saved, blew up and lightened an image of the firewall. The cowl to firewall seam looks pretty nice as well. Both these areas mentioned are usually a tell tale of overall condition.

This would be an excellent car for someone looking to "get in". Some detailing and repair, and new nose and you'd have a respectable cruiser. Well priced, and a full size 4 door HT... what more would anyone ever want lol!

,

long stroke · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

300 hp 350, i thought that would have had a four barrel. This looks like a two barrel. Solid car and all there and when was the last time you saw a 69 four door hardtop.

cdnpont · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

Curious, what would be the tell tale that it's a 2 bbl over a 4?

69 B 350 300.jpg

MC · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

Looks like a nice solid cruiser... "all the good cars are out west"!

Just curious, when the Endura nose piece goes black like that, can it be fixed? I see a lot of '69 full size for sale with the nose no longer body colour, on cars that look really good otherwise.

Canadian Poncho · A Poncho Legend!

Saving the nose depends on how brittle it is. There were a couple of variations of noses in 69, one being stronger than the other. Usually when they are black like that they are very porous looking on the surface. You might be able to buy some time with it by putting a skim coat of spot putty on it or better yet something that would be flexible and painting it (again with a flex agent added).
That is a neat car.

davepl · Poncho Master!

I remember parting out a winter car that I had that was equipped with the 300hp motor. Guys were very eager to get the heads, I don't know if they were special or what, but I got a lot of calls on them.

MC · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

Canadian Poncho wrote:
Saving the nose depends on how brittle it is. There were a couple of variations of noses in 69, one being stronger than the other. Usually when they are black like that they are very porous looking on the surface. You might be able to buy some time with it by putting a skim coat of spot putty on it or better yet something that would be flexible and painting it (again with a flex agent added).
That is a neat car.

Thanks Todd.

I'm wondering if a repair kit for modern plastic bumper covers would provide the materials necessary to fix and paint one of these.

Seems to be the only real sore point with '69s, would be nice to know if there's a tried and true repair method, or even reproduction replacements available.

hawkeye5766 · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

Curiuous..How do you get 300 HP out of an snorkel that small???

cdnpont · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

You flip the lid...

davepl · Poncho Master!

Flip the lid... Beat me to it!

But remember dyno numbers back in the day were with open air cleaner, cool air, and headers. Which is also how we dyno them at the shop and generally get very close to pre-72 gross numbers that way.

Which is why the same motor can be installed in a Corvette, Nova, or Impala, all with different exhaust systems, and get the same power rating. Or why the LS1 has 335hp with either single OR dual exhaust.

cdnpont · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

I have physical conformation that the lid flip actually flows more air,

When I had my first car at 16, the 69 2+2 350/250 with single exhaust, of course I used to run around with the pedal pegged about 100% of the time thrashing the 350. One day I discovered the lid flip, and about a day after, taking it on another redline pegged run it suddenly went BANG changing to a roar. Thought I'd blown the engine! Nope, it had blown the intermediate pipe right off the crossover lol! Proof the air pump was moving a ton more air. Beyond the cool moaning sound, it did feel like more power, so much so it could spin a tire easily now. But the moan grew old so the lid was placed on the right way, and duals were added. That little 350/250 2bbl really pulled well.

ABC123 · Uber Guru

If we could turn back time biggrin

2131468?AWSAccessKeyId=1XXJBWHKN0QBQS6TG

Is that a "dorky" tailpipe I see there ?

Kind of looks like my "dorky" tail pipe

Not to mention that awful hood gap.

Sorry my friend, I couldn't resist !

You should have flipped my lid when you had the chance !

-- Edited by ABC123 on Sunday 18th of March 2018 05:56:27 PM

-- Edited by ABC123 on Sunday 18th of March 2018 05:58:04 PM

gtodrive · Guru

MC wrote:
Canadian Poncho wrote:
Saving the nose depends on how brittle it is. There were a couple of variations of noses in 69, one being stronger than the other. Usually when they are black like that they are very porous looking on the surface. You might be able to buy some time with it by putting a skim coat of spot putty on it or better yet something that would be flexible and painting it (again with a flex agent added).
That is a neat car.
Thanks Todd.
I'm wondering if a repair kit for modern plastic bumper covers would provide the materials necessary to fix and paint one of these.
Seems to be the only real sore point with '69s, would be nice to know if there's a tried and true repair method, or even reproduction replacements available.

when the nose turns black, it actually means that the 1/4 top layer has cracked and flaked off...no decent repair job can be done at that point. A fiberglass reproduction is made, however, I have no experience on how it fits or the quality.

MC · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

gtodrive wrote:
MC wrote:
Canadian Poncho wrote:
Saving the nose depends on how brittle it is. There were a couple of variations of noses in 69, one being stronger than the other. Usually when they are black like that they are very porous looking on the surface. You might be able to buy some time with it by putting a skim coat of spot putty on it or better yet something that would be flexible and painting it (again with a flex agent added).
That is a neat car.
Thanks Todd.
I'm wondering if a repair kit for modern plastic bumper covers would provide the materials necessary to fix and paint one of these.
Seems to be the only real sore point with '69s, would be nice to know if there's a tried and true repair method, or even reproduction replacements available.
when the nose turns black, it actually means that the 1/4 top layer has cracked and flaked off...no decent repair job can be done at that point. A fiberglass reproduction is made, however, I have no experience on how it fits or the quality.

Thanks for that. I never realized how severe the degradation was in general, though I should have picked it up from Todd's comments about it being porous.

Now I understand the situation much better!

Pontiacanada · A Poncho Legend!

gtodrive wrote:
when the nose turns black, it actually means that the 1/4 top layer has cracked and flaked off...no decent repair job can be done at that point.

... like severe frostbite! wink

Canadian Poncho · A Poncho Legend!

RE: wasn't somebody here looking for a 69 Pontiac 4 door hardtop?

North · Guru

Years ago I put a bone stock 69 350 2bbl (rated 265 gross horses) Pontiac engine with single exhaust on a chassis dyno and it put 150 horse to the back tire. While it sounds low it made sense given that the engine was probably a bit tired and it was running AC, TH400 and power steering which all take there share of ponies. They say that the conversion from gross to net is about 15% or 20-25% if single exhaust . Then the typical drop to get from net (still measured at the flywheel but with exhaust, air cleaner and alternator etc installed), then the typical losses from net at the flywheel to the tires is typically about 15-20% (10-15 for a manual trans).

So if you take 265 and deduct 20-25% for net and then deduct another 20% for drive line losses you get about 160-165. The missing 15hp can probably be related to the age of the engine and the parasitic drag of the AC and PS belts which are not considered in the conversion to net horsepower.

Back to my point for posting... flipping the air cleaner lid resulted in an extra 5 hp exactly.

gtodrive · Guru

CdnGMfan · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

long stroke wrote:
...and when was the last time you saw a 69 four door hardtop.

Hmmm, last time I saw a decent 69 Pontiac 4-door hardtop in person... A Parisienne? 1986. A Grand Parisienne? 1995.

MoboMac · Poncho Master!

I'm thinking it was the guy in Washington....who bought the L36 convert basket case out of Alberta?

Wasn't he looking for a "creampuff" donor car......for his restoration project?

cdnpont · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

ABC123 wrote:

Sorry my friend, I couldn't resist !
You should have flipped my lid when you had the chance !

No, no...I was actually pointing out how good it looked Randy!

But I can't say the same for the tailpipe...and mine was 40 years ago.

ABC123 · Uber Guru

No offence, just having fun biggrin

My nose is a good example of the two layers.

Before the son in-law of the previous owner of my put the big block springs in the front, he damaged the outer layer at the bottom.

I have seen a fiberglass one in person and it was thin and hollow.

first little bump and it would shatter.

The one above looks more robust and the price is right.

MC · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

gtodrive wrote:

Interesting. Looks good in the pic. Price is good enough that it would be tempting to buy two and have them both painted at the same time, to have a spare with matching paint in the event of a mishap...