Engine Refresh & Upgrade

Glenn Musgrave · Addicted!

Engine Refresh & Upgrade

DANO65 · Poncho Master!

I have the Melling MTC-1 in a 283, little bigger than stock, 204/214 dur, 0.420"/0.443" lift. Works great, nice vacuum and idle quality, little more burble to the exhaust. I did have TH350 behind it though pulled nice through all the gears.

HK1837 · Addicted!

Does it have to be period correct for 1962? If not I'd find a 1967 Quadrajet intake and run a Quadrajet off a 1967 car. And use the GP hydraulic cam that was used for many years.

Glenn Musgrave · Addicted!

HK1837 wrote:
Does it have to be period correct for 1962? If not I'd find a 1967 Quadrajet intake and run a Quadrajet off a 1967 car. And use the GP hydraulic cam that was used for many years.

I already have the period correct Quadrajet so will role with that. Originally, I wasn't going to do anything but it makes sense to do something to get the benefit of the 4 BBL

Glenn Musgrave · Addicted!

DANO65 wrote:
I have the Melling MTC-1 in a 283, little bigger than stock, 204/214 dur, 0.420"/0.443" lift. Works great, nice vacuum and idle quality, little more burble to the exhaust. I did have TH350 behind it though pulled nice through all the gears.

Interesting the CCS-37 is 202/207 duration, .403/.414 lift. compared to the stock lift of .330/.330 in 62. The 1961 the 283 4BBL was labelled Super Strato-Flash and had lift of .3987/.3987 I don't think I want to go much higher than the CCS-37. The 283 is never going to be a power house and I don't want to sacrifice much gas mileage. I was able to get 22 - 23 mpg with 1966 Laurentian 283/2BBL and don't want to stray to far from that, hoping for north of 20 mpg. Any idea what you are getting for mileage with your cam? What heads are you using?

DANO65 · Poncho Master!

Glenn Musgrave wrote:
DANO65 wrote:
I have the Melling MTC-1 in a 283, little bigger than stock, 204/214 dur, 0.420"/0.443" lift. Works great, nice vacuum and idle quality, little more burble to the exhaust. I did have TH350 behind it though pulled nice through all the gears.
Interesting the CCS-37 is 202/207 duration, .403/.414 lift. compared to the stock lift of .330/.330 in 62. The 1961 the 283 4BBL was labelled Super Strato-Flash and had lift of .3987/.3987 I don't think I want to go much higher than the CCS-37. The 283 is never going to be a power house and I don't want to sacrifice much gas mileage. I was able to get 22 - 23 mpg with 1966 Laurentian 283/2BBL and don't want to stray to far from that, hoping for north of 20 mpg. Any idea what you are getting for mileage with your cam? What heads are you using?

It was the original 283 in my 65, all stock except for the cam swap and an Edelbrock Performer intake and Q-jet, still got 22-24 mpg when driven nice...

Glenn Musgrave · Addicted!

DANO65 wrote:
Glenn Musgrave wrote:
DANO65 wrote:
I have the Melling MTC-1 in a 283, little bigger than stock, 204/214 dur, 0.420"/0.443" lift. Works great, nice vacuum and idle quality, little more burble to the exhaust. I did have TH350 behind it though pulled nice through all the gears.
Interesting the CCS-37 is 202/207 duration, .403/.414 lift. compared to the stock lift of .330/.330 in 62. The 1961 the 283 4BBL was labelled Super Strato-Flash and had lift of .3987/.3987 I don't think I want to go much higher than the CCS-37. The 283 is never going to be a power house and I don't want to sacrifice much gas mileage. I was able to get 22 - 23 mpg with 1966 Laurentian 283/2BBL and don't want to stray to far from that, hoping for north of 20 mpg. Any idea what you are getting for mileage with your cam? What heads are you using?
It was the original 283 in my 65, all stock except for the cam swap and an Edelbrock Performer intake and Q-jet, still got 22-24 mpg when driven nice...

Nice!!! I misspoke earlier, I have the 4GC Rochester not the Quadrajet. I put a lot of carb kits in the Quadrajets over the years and got into the bad habit of calling every Rochester 4BBL a Quadrajet.

Glenn Musgrave · Addicted!

So much for a simple engine refresh. Once I tore it down I could feel the walls in cylinders 6 & 8 were out of round. I took it to Nova Automotive to have it bored.030" but they checked and it had too much wear and bored it .040". Turns out the old girl already had rings and bearings replaced at some point. The crank had to be turned down as well. The power pack heads I bought now have new seats. Heads had been planed and guides knurled not many miles before they came to me. Even though the push rods spent a good deal of time in the parts cleaner and had a lot of air blown through, there was still dried oil on the insides so I went with new ones. The only factory engine parts being reused are the block, connecting rods, crank and all pans. I now have all the pieces and will start the build once the Christmas lights are all up. Really excited to get at it!

Even though the block was soaked twice while at Nova the journals didn't come as clean as they wanted. The attached photo will show what I got out of the water journals after getting the block back. I took several hours of prodding with a 4" nozzle on my air gun at 120 psi to get this crap out. It was time well spent, some of the chunks were the size of my little finger nail and would have undoubtedly plugged some of the small ports in the block and heads causing me no end of problems. I will put the heads through the same process before installing them.

Pontiacanada · A Poncho Legend!

Wow, that's a lot of junk ... it's good to be persistent!

Glenn Musgrave · Addicted!

I bought the power pack heads first and since they are a higher compression head I thought it wise to take a deeper look at the bottom end to make sure it could handle it. It's been expensive but turned out to be a good thing. It likely wouldn't have lasted long and I wouldn't have been a happy camper. Should be a decent little motor when it gets on the road.

cdnpont · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

Interesting build. Could you take some shots of the progress Glenn?

On the scale and rust in the block; I went through a similar issue (though not a bad as yours) on my 454 as it was a freshwater marine block. I used a product called lime-a-way from Ecolab. Blocked off the water pump passages and frost plugs. One bank at a time, I propped the block up to make the head surface level and filled that sides passages up with the solution to the brim. Within a hour it began to foam out the top. Left it a day, drained and rinsed it out. Repeated for the other bank. The passages came out absolutely spotless.

Glenn Musgrave · Addicted!

cdnpont wrote:
Interesting build. Could you take some shots of the progress Glenn?
On the scale and rust in the block; I went through a similar issue (though not a bad as yours) on my 454 as it was a freshwater marine block. I used a product called lime-a-way from Ecolab. Blocked off the water pump passages and frost plugs. One bank at a time, I propped the block up to make the head surface level and filled that sides passages up with the solution to the brim. Within a hour it began to foam out the top. Left it a day, drained and rinsed it out. Repeated for the other bank. The passages came out absolutely spotless.

I must not have hit submit yesterday when I replied. I've heard of lime-a-way but have never used it. In the old days they use to use Gillett's Lye. Last night I installed the crank. The engine won't be started for about 2 years so I am using cam lube to coat the internals instead of oil which would simply drain off. I do have an oil primer but want to do everything possible to protect the internals until I can run it. I also adopted a change in the install procedure for the rear main seal. I always use to mount them flush like everyone else and use a little dab of silicon on the backside of the joint to help prevent leaks. This time I offset it 3/8" as recommended on the package of the new seal. I really like the idea and think it should help. This time around I put a dab of silicon in a different place, see photo, in case oil gets by the seal. As you can tell, a leak would drive me crazy.

I know there is a temptation not to use plastigage since the block was bored, crank ground and bearings ordered accordingly but if an issue identifies after the engine is running you need to know was it a machine shop error or assembly error. There's a lot of money and pride on the line, take the time and do it right. It's not likely I will get back at it for a week as it's time to decorate for Christmas. When posting these photos I realized I didn't have the new pistons in them

Bearing Prep.jpg

Checking Ring Gap.jpg

Dab of Silicon.jpg

Main 1-4 Checked Out.jpg

Plastigage Checked Out.jpg

Rear Main Bearing .010.jpg

Some New Components resize.jpg

Glenn Musgrave · Addicted!

It's been awhile since I last posted but the engine rebuild is complete. I read my previous post and should clarify, while I coated as many moving parts as possible with engine rebuild lube I did not coat the cylinder walls or pistons with it for fear of contributing to glazing of the cylinder walls. I used oil instead in this area. I coated the lifters, lifter journals, balls of the push rods and top of valve stems with Melling cam lube that was left over after coating the cam and cam bearings.

I should mention prior to the final cleaning before any assembly, I used a large flat sharpening stone to all mated surfaces. Typically, you'll find rough edges on the casting that can affect the surfaces and gaskets from mating evenly. Rubbing the sharpening stone over them will take care of this issue and serve to provide a better seal and prevent leaks.

I use a skim of high heat silicone on all gaskets except the head gaskets. I know some of you may thing I'm crazy and yes I know the danger. A good number of years ago a customer came to me after a local garage installed a new oil pan on the 350 in his Surban 2 months prior. The engine had a bad knock. When I tore it down I found silicon had plugged the sump and you know the rest. I have always put a very thin layer of silicon on both side of gaskets to avoid leaks in the future and it helps protect the gaskets when you remove the valve covers for any final adjustments that may be necessary. I pay particular attention to make sure it is on very thin and no silicon gets on the inner edge of the gasket and able to make its way through the engine. As you can see in the photos this time I only coated one side of the intake gaskets, the side facing the head, but I coated the intake itself. The thought being it would take care of the pitting imperfections in the casting.

I also included a photo of the clear plastic sleeve I slide over the valve stems to protect the seals while they are being installed. The photo only shows the umbrella seal but I also installed the GM style O-ring seal, simply sliding it down past the groove for it, removing the plastic sleeve and sliding the O-ring up in place. If you look carefully at the photos of the pistons you can see I used gas line on the rod bolts to protect the crank. I know a lot of guys prefer to use 6" long hose, I couldn't have had a lot of extra hose around when I first cut these and simply got use to using this length.

For guys who may have never done this type of work before, when torquing head and intake bolts you can cover the treads and under the head bolts with oil or a mild lock tight. I always snug them in sequence and then using the torque wrench set to 10 - 15 lbs below spec and following the sequence, I tighten them down. Then I set the torque wrench to the final setting and go through the process again. I keep going through the sequence until I don't get any more movement, it may take 3 trips through before this occurs.

I attached a photo of our first attempt to use a stencil for the Pontiac identification on the value covers. It didn't work out because the orange painted lived off the valve cover when we removed the stencil. This time I glass blasted the valve covers to remove anything that might be preventing the paint from adhering to them. I then took a sanding pad followed by 3,000 grit sandpaper to remove any roughness caused by the blasting process. Looking forward to getting new stencils:) Using the stencil with GM black engine paint will avoid any issues of colour matching the various orange engine paint with the vinyl letters that are out there.

DonSSDD · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

Nice work Glenn, forgot to ask, when do you need that carb back, plus generator and VR?

Glenn Musgrave · Addicted!

DonSSDD wrote:
Nice work Glenn, forgot to ask, when do you need that carb back, plus generator and VR?

Thanks Don. No rush on any of that stuff, whenever you no longer need them is fine. Whenever I get the chance to post a few body progress pic you'll understand my response:)

otus · Addicted!

Over here I just have to ask..Did you drill and tap your crank snout?? LOL

Glenn Musgrave · Addicted!

otus wrote:
Over here I just have to ask..Did you drill and tap your crank snout?? LOL

No sir, I remember reading on this site that some guys are highly recommending it. I have never experienced any issues in any of the other motors I built over the years. As you know, in the case of a 283 the balancer is a solid piece so no need to worry about separation like the 327, 350's etc. I simply make sure there aren't any burs on either the crank or the balancer, apply a thin coat of white lithium grease to all mating surfaces and tap it on. Vaseline/petroleum jelly would also be good to use.

Prefectca · Poncho Master!

To add to the recommendation for drilling the crank, the main reason is to avoid damage to the crankshaft thrust bearing by pounding the balancer on. Personally I have pounded many on without doing damage, but never did check the crankshaft end play after installation.

Paul

Glenn Musgrave · Addicted!

Prefectca wrote:
To add to the recommendation for drilling the crank, the main reason is to avoid damage to the crankshaft thrust bearing by pounding the balancer on. Personally I have pounded many on without doing damage, but never did check the crankshaft end play after installation.

Paul

I agree but also recognize there is a difference between tapping something in place and pounding/forcing it to go. Brut force can damage anything but I found with thought out preparations and tapping something in place you generally won't have any issues. Admittedly, most of my engine work has been on small blocks of all sizes and a few big blocks and most were predrilled from the factory. I will take advantage of a drilled crank where possible but I have never shied away from the ones that were not drilled and with careful persuasion, as my Dad use to say, I've not had any issues.

Glenn Musgrave · Addicted!

Like many restorations this one is going much slower than I had hoped. Progress is being made however, so I thought I'd post a couple photos. I used the engine crane to lift the cast glide onto a small scaffolding from Princess Auto, then lifted the engine up to mate them together. I should have taken photos but if you haven't done this before, remember to line up the paint marks the factory installed on the flywheel and torque converter. It's been so long since I posted to this site I can't remember how to rotate photos or explain why they didn't upload they way they appear on my screen. Maybe some kind person can help out and let me know....again....

Connecting Motor to Tranie rot.jpg

Unlike the TH350 etc. these old girls don't have the inspection pan to allow you to connect a flywheel wrench to help line up the flywheel with the torque converter. During the build I kept track of when # 1 was TDC and inserted the distributor. During this phase the distributor was in and I ended up screwing 3 bolts into the harmonic balancer and then used a bar on them to rotate the motor to line up the flywheel and converter. In the next photo you'll see the oval hole to give access to the torque converter. Once you have all the bolts in you'll need someone to insert the bar in the bolts you put in the harmonic balancer and hold the motor from turning over while you torque the bolts.

Bolt Flywheel to Converteraaa.jpg

They are bolted to the frame and I began attaching the Magnaflow 2-1/2" exhaust system etc. as you can see below it seems to fit nicely. One surprise came when I started to see how to attach it and learned we had to cut the factory mounting brackets off the frame. The Magnaflow system comes with rubber insulators, to reduce vibration, that bolt through existing holes in the frame. One exception is, you use the supplied clips to insert in holes in the back floor cross member and then use the rubber insulators. I had already had the frame professionally glass bead blasted and then I treated it with POR-15. Now I'll have to blast the areas when the brackets were cut off and redo the POR-15 in that area.

Manifold Pipe Installed rot.jpg

My plan is to fire this baby up some time this summer just to get the satisfaction of hearing it run. Slow progress on the body side but I hope to post a few pics there soon.

cdnpont · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

Nice work Glenn I must say!

I always save my images to a desktop file before posting. Crop, rotate, resize, sharpen, colour.

If they are not cooperating and flipping opposite as they appear on the phone. I open the image in the desktop file, select edit image, rotate it and give it a new name. You must rename it though, that's key.

I'm sure the same edit can be done on any phone, not sure how.

Also, to limit all the longer text of your entire post running right off the window, limit the image horizontal size to around 1400 Pixels.

I brought some of your images down in width to correct this. It can be done right in the post, but I'll not clog your thread up with this. Cheers.

Canadian Poncho · A Poncho Legend!

There's also a great website to edit photos:

https://pixlr.com/e/

68vert · Guru

Looks great, love reading these detailed technical posts with nice clear close up shots and all the little tips and tricks. Thanks for posting, so neat and tidy!

Glenn Musgrave · Addicted!

cdnpont wrote:
Nice work Glenn I must say!

I always save my images to a desktop file before posting. Crop, rotate, resize, sharpen, colour.

If they are not cooperating and flipping opposite as they appear on the phone. I open the image in the desktop file, select edit image, rotate it and give it a new name. You must rename it though, that's key.
I'm sure the same edit can be done on any phone, not sure how.

Also, to limit all the longer text of your entire post running right off the window, limit the image horizontal size to around 1400 Pixels.
I brought some of your images down in width to correct this. It can be done right in the post, but I'll not clog your thread up with this. Cheers.

Thanks Mark

Glenn Musgrave · Addicted!

Canadian Poncho wrote:
There's also a great website to edit photos:
https://pixlr.com/e/

Thanks Todd. I resized the photos, to 30% of what they were when I took them, so they would fit on the site. I will reduce them even smaller next time. The rotation thing drove me crazy and maybe it occurred because I still didn't reduce them enough.