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Post Info TOPIC: Engine Refresh & Upgrade


A Poncho Legend!

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Engine Refresh & Upgrade


The rotation issue occures when you take a photo holding your phone the "wrong" way.


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Todd
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I made some headway but not yet in a position to fire it up. I had hoped to find a correct air cleaner for a 4 BBL. I ordered one in from Classic Industries but it has the long narrow snorkel. I don't like the look and feel it won't haul enough air to fully benefit the 4 BBL. I'm sure engineers would disagree, since they designed it but... I believe the one shown in the pic that I used is from '61 but could be mistaken. Like everything metal I get my hands on I glass bead blasted it and treated it with POR-15. I will tone down the shine with POR-15 top coat the next time I have the can out.

I have the Magnaflow exhaust system temporarily attached. I had to remove the factory brackets from the frame to make room for it. It looks like I'll have to drill holes in the frame to accommodate the Magnaflow hanger system at the mufflers and tailpipes. I won't drill any holes in the frame until the body is back on and I see exactly how everything lines up. The middle hanger connects to a cross-member in the floor.

I ordered a new rad cap from GM who had to special order it from the warehouse in Memphis, TN. At least it came and I didn't have to pay exchange etc. etc. I had the rad checked and flushed at a shop and they said it was good to go. I am now cleaning the rad frame getting it ready for POR-15. No blasting this time. I don't want to risk damaging the rad. I hit it with a wire wheel and now will use POR-15 cleaner followed by POR-15 prep before treating it.

gm1.jpg

gm2.jpg

 



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Canadian Poncho Superstar!

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A work of art.



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 67 Grande Parisienne 4 door HT. 69 Parisienne Convertible.
 


Canadian Poncho Superstar!

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Thats very true, attention to detail shows. Nice looking exhaust.

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63 Parisienne sport coupe (The Big GTO), black, maroon interior, 409 4 speed; former owner of a 59 El Camino, 63 Corvette SWC, 62 Chev Bel Air SC.
1963- Pontiac top selling car in Canada

Mahone Bay, NS Still not old enough to need an automatic



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cdnpont wrote:

A work of art.


 Plus one, beautiful work.



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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles 

1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars (now converted to a "factory" 4 speed)



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Thanks guys, I hope it works as well as it looks, fingers crossed.



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Seems like I jinxed myself with my last comment   I was all proud and ready to fire her up but then heard the fight between the flywheel and starter.  Managed to get it to turn over but not start before the flywheel died.  For those who may not be aware, the starter on the cast iron glides, has 3 bolts that bolt it to the adapter plate: one on the top from the back side and 2 at the bottom on the front.  No possible way to shim.  Because the bottom of the glide is enclosed you can't see if things are lined up or not, they simply are supposed to be.

My search for a flywheel didn't go well.  I check out nearly 2 dozen 168 tooth flex plates but no cigar!  Everyone insists a 168 tooth flex plate is the same across all Chevy small blocks.  What I was discovered is the bolt holes to connect to the torque converter are closer to the ring gear on a cast iron glide than all other flex plates / flywheels.  I turned to the web and found a guy on eBay with NOS for $600 US plus shipping.  That's about 1G landed at my door, no thanks.  New 168 tooth ring gears are readily available as they are the same up to 2007.  Despite being told it couldn't be done I found a guy who insisted he could do it.  It looks great!  At this point I am into it for just under $100 Cdn.

The OEM starter was so close to the new Magnaflow exhaust that I knew I'd have heat problems so I ordered a mini high-torque, which should solve that problem.  It will bolt to the bottom of the block using the factory predrilled holes.  Well thats the theory.  See my post: Mini High-Torque starter vs Cast Iron Glide for more details.

I installed the flywheel but I wasn't putting it together without checking clearances to see if it needed to be shimmed.  I 1st bolted the OEM starter in to see where things went wrong.  Most of the tail of the starter was in contact with the ring gear, exposing very little of it for the Bendix drive to make contact.  When I look at the destroyed ring gear, it is only the front of the teeth that are destroyed.

Not being able to figure it out I took the starter, flex plate, old ring gear and adapter plate to Nova Automotive along with a slew of photos.  They have never seen anything like it and at the moment are at a loss to explain whats happening.  I left everything with them and they are going to bolt it onto a 350 block they have laying around and see if they can figure it out.  I thought Id post it here in case any of you experienced this and have the solution.

Below is a photo showing the OEM starter bolted in place.  You can see it touches the very tail of the starter housing. Take your pick on how you want to look at it, either the starter is not back far enough or the flywheel is too far back, neither are adjustable.



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Sorry for not keeping this post updated. The flywheel and mini-torque worked fine on the 350 block and is working fine on mine. Finally, fired it up nicely, that is until two valves began to sound like a push rod was soon coming out, so I shut it down. I tried adjust the valves but was unable to quiet them. I dug deeper and discovered two of the pressed in rocker arm studs were coming out. The replacement ones I bought were the thread in type. I tapped the holes in the head and installed them.

The motor started fine and was running quiet. Five minutes into the break in the rubber gasket, at the back of the block, between the heads actually tore and oil was blowing out big time. It was a new gasket. It stayed connected on the corners but the middle tore. This time when I took it apart I used silicone and let it set for a few days before installing the intake. While I was waiting for the silicone to setup I began to be concerned about the health of the cam shaft due to so much cranking and all the starts and stops. I decided to pull the lifters to check for wear. I didn't like what I saw. The bottom of every lifter had a dull wear spot about the size of a dime. I made the decision to get a new cam and lifters.

I went with the same cam but this time, instead of using the Melling lifters I used Comp. Their lifters have a bluish colour to the the bottom that is supposed to make them even more tempered than a regular lifter. It appears as though the old girl wanted to remain asleep or was testing my resolve. Here's a link to the video that proves I finally won. I am very happy with the end result and can't wait until we get it on the road!!!! 

As a final note, Nova Automotive told me not to expect 20 inches of vacuum, 18 was most likely.  I ended with 19. 



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A Poncho Legend!

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Interesting way to set the timing with the test light. I've never seen that one before. You taught an old dog (backyard mechanic!) a new trick.

I was taught way back when how to get it very close and just move the distributor on start up but that's even better.



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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles 

1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars (now converted to a "factory" 4 speed)



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Great job and video Glenn. Will that light trick work with Pertronics Glenn?

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63 Parisienne sport coupe (The Big GTO), black, maroon interior, 409 4 speed; former owner of a 59 El Camino, 63 Corvette SWC, 62 Chev Bel Air SC.
1963- Pontiac top selling car in Canada

Mahone Bay, NS Still not old enough to need an automatic



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Rochester 4-barrel carburetor known a "4-Jet", "4-G" and "Quadri-jet".

Note the position of the identification tag

https://www.thecarburetorshop.com/Carbshop_virtual_museum.htm

Thanks
Randy



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A Poncho Legend!

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Excellent video Glenn! I too didn't know that trick for setting initial timing.

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DonSSDD wrote:

Great job and video Glenn. Will that light trick work with Pertronics Glenn?


 Great question Don.  Other than the name I'm not familiar with Pertronics systems so can't answer. 



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4SPEED427 wrote:

Interesting way to set the timing with the test light. I've never seen that one before. You taught an old dog (backyard mechanic!) a new trick.

I was taught way back when how to get it very close and just move the distributor on start up but that's even better.


Must admit it's a fairly recent new skill.  I'm soon 71, so it's not to late to learn a new trick or two.  In days of old I simply used to put the distributor so the vacuum advance was relatively parallel to the valve cover.  With these new cams they don't want any unnecessary cranking to prevent wear, they want instant start.  I didn't quite achieve it due to low fuel, but it wasn't bad.



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GLHS60 wrote:


Rochester 4-barrel carburetor known a "4-Jet", "4-G" and "Quadri-jet".

Note the position of the identification tag

https://www.thecarburetorshop.com/Carbshop_virtual_museum.htm

Thanks
Randy


 Interesting read Randy nice to see some history.  I was surprised they didn't mention the 4GC as beginning 1958, or mention it all, except in the photos and then the photos are different.  The carb they are showing like mine they say is a 4 Jet.  What's really interesting is I bought the carb from NAPA https://www.napacanada.com/en/p/ATLC983 and Autoline say it's a 4GC.  I'm pretty sure the photos in my GM shop manual are also labelled as 4GC with a similar photo, but now I'll have to check.  I must admit the vast majority of my carb work was in the 70's and 80's working on Q-Jets.



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Canadian Poncho wrote:

Excellent video Glenn! I too didn't know that trick for setting initial timing.


 Thanks Todd, I likely should have turned it into a series, and should have shown how to set up a carb, adjust valves etc.  It was just too much to put into one video without it getting so long no one would watch.



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Canadian Poncho Superstar!

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I think it says 4jet on top of the 4gc, the 2 gc says 2 jet.

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63 Parisienne sport coupe (The Big GTO), black, maroon interior, 409 4 speed; former owner of a 59 El Camino, 63 Corvette SWC, 62 Chev Bel Air SC.
1963- Pontiac top selling car in Canada

Mahone Bay, NS Still not old enough to need an automatic

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Canadian Poncho Superstar!

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You have the soothing manner of an auto shop teacher I used to have long ago. A small thing, but It's really quite a milestone seeing oil come up through the rockers on the prime isn't it!

I've done a similar thing using a pertronix. Powered up, I just used #1 spark plug as a trouble light. It'll spark as the pickup sweeps the hall effect magnet at #1 when you rotate the dist.

What a thing of beauty you have there. 



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Poncho Master!

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Excellent video. So calm like he does it every day 2-3 times LOL.
All the "initial starts" I've had never went that smooth...

Will the timing trick work with HEI Glenn ?

Thanks for the video

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If it works with Pertronics, logically it would work with hei, similarly a magnetic pickup? After thinking about it, the points opening and closing are providing a 12 volt spark to the #1 plug, the magnetic pickup is doing exactly the same thing?

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63 Parisienne sport coupe (The Big GTO), black, maroon interior, 409 4 speed; former owner of a 59 El Camino, 63 Corvette SWC, 62 Chev Bel Air SC.
1963- Pontiac top selling car in Canada

Mahone Bay, NS Still not old enough to need an automatic



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Thanks Mark.  That's nice to know about Pertronics.  Don's logic, as usual, makes sense that it would work on HEI and a timing light.



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LT1Caddy wrote:

Excellent video. So calm like he does it every day 2-3 times LOL.
All the "initial starts" I've had never went that smooth...

Will the timing trick work with HEI Glenn ?

Thanks for the video


 Thanks for the comment on the video.

I haven't tired it but when you read comments in this link it makes sense something similar should work.  I wouldn't connect a test light to the number plug wire.  If memory serves me correctly, HEI systems generate about 25,000 volts, your 12 volt test light wouldn't stand a chance.  Connecting your timing light and using the inductive pickup should do the same thing as the test I did for point systems.



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Poncho Master!

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Never thought of that !!!!! That would give you some "liftoff" LOL

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