American Vs Canadian

North · Guru

American Vs Canadian

North · Guru

Wheel placement and size are the major visual difference...

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North · Guru

They drive completely different despite having the same doghouse and overall size. They both have the same 2.73 axle ratio (but not the same axle design), both are 3 speed turbohydro's but the Cat is a TH400 vs a TH350 in the 2+2. The Cat has the standard 400-290 2bbl engine and the 2+2 has the one step up 350-300 4bbl, both are high compression. Both also have power steering and power drum brakes. neither has AC and both have factory spec single exhaust.

The Cat drives like a big heavy car while the 2+2 feels more Abody like in how it drives, nimbler but also less solid. I'm going to weigh both of them one of these days. I suspect the Cat is quite a bit heavier. Both the engine and frame are quite a bit bigger.

jmont64 · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

Interesting. Thanks for that.

Canadian Poncho · A Poncho Legend!

Yes, thanks for sharing this. I think this is the first US vs Canadian comparison. I'm interested to hear what the weight difference is.

MC · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

Ditto. Keep it comin' if you feel like it. Your info is answering some questions that I've had for a long time.

66 Grande guy · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

Fascinating stuff for sure.

unruhjonny · Guru

neat!

North · Guru

Hard to compare exact models. I guess from a trim point of view the Catalina lines up with the Laurentian (similar seat and door panel quality) as well as terms of exterior trim. The strato has no US equivalent and the Parisienne is between a Bonneville and a Catalina. The grande Parisienne lines up with the Bonneville trim wise. Mechanically of course there is no way to compare since the US cars all had 400 and 428 as standard engines versus the 250 and 350 in Canadian cars as standard, as well the US cars had the two different body-wheelbase lengths as well.

Looking at the two it's amazing how different they are beneath the surface. As I mentioned the US frame is much deeper and heavier, it even has an extra crossmember up front. Canadian wheelbase was 119" versus US cars being 122" (Cats and all wagons) and 125" (Executives and Bonnies). Despite the wheelbase difference between the Catalina and Canadian models the overall body length is identical at 217.5". The bonnie and executive is 6" longer.

Suspension is quite different also with the American car having "A" control arms up front and 4 link in the rear versus the Canadian car having the line lower arm with a brace rod up front and a panrod type set up in the rear. The American brake drums are huge by comparison, must weigh double those of the Canadian car. Another chassis difference is the gas tank; Canadian car is 24 (US) gallons and wider than long. The US car has a 26.5 gallon tank and it is quite narrow and very long. The US tailpipes run inboard of the frame versus the Canadian cars running exhaust pipes outboard of the frame.

The floor and trunk pans are quite different to account for the different frames. The cowl is completely different, The US cars have a unique setup with opposing wipers versus the Canadian version being the parallel wiper system similar to the 68-72 A body setup. The rad support on the American car is much like that of the 69-72 A bodies but the Canadian car has a rad support that is much smaller, like the 64-67 A-body cars.

Interior difference in 69 depends on model. All Canadian cars have the US dashpad but steering column, pedals, door panels and seats are all chevy spec. The grande Parisienne is a bit different in that it uses door panels that are like the US Bonneville.

The sheetmetal interchange is less than you might think. Roof, doors, glass and outer quarter panels all are the same as the short wheelbase American cars (Catalina) Bumpers and front valence interchange as well but not the rear valance. Fenders are completely different with the front wheel opening being one inch closer to the cowl and the difference up top at the back for the different cowl-wiper arrangement. Inner bracing and the inner fenders are completely different. Canadian Hoods are also unique with different inner bracing, different hood hinge location and different cowl area shape. Trunklids are all different but some interchange but some don't, American trunklids come in two length while Canadian cars only use the short version. The Parisienne and 2+2 use a unique Canada only lid in that it is the short version but it is cut for the longer Bonneville style 3 bulb taillights. No US car had this combination. Even where the lids interchange (Catalina and Strato-laurentian) the inner structure is quite different.

North · Guru

also note the older style top and bottom tank style radiator on the Canadian car versus the US side tank set up. Even little things are quite different: The US car has a real out type underhood light with a switch control mounted on the cowl, the Canadian car uses a chevy spec hood mounted light with a mercury switch built into it. Same for the trunk light, Canadian car is typical chevy style mercury activated light in the trunklid while the US cars had a light mounted on the left trunk hinge with a lever arm switch.

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-- Edited by North on Tuesday 25th of May 2021 02:06:52 PM

pontorquer · Poncho Master!

Thanks for this in depth valuable information ...

seventy2plus2 · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

Don't even think about bolting a Catalina front fender onto a Parisienne, or the other way around. It ain't gonna work.

North · Guru

Don't know why this photo disappeared from my previous post

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North · Guru

Wiper area and firewall

Canadian first then US...

As you can see the wiper arrangement is completely different. This shows up in the hood and upper rear areas of the fenders. The Canadian car has the entire area raised while the US models have a raised area only in the center. chrome moldings are therefore completely different.

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North · Guru

Optional underhood lights are completely different, Canadian model uses typical chevy set up with inline fuse and hood mounted light with internal mercury switch. US models used a firewall mounted switch (uses a brakelight switch) and a rad support mounted light, interestingly the light has a 17' reel so you can place the light where you need it for say changing a tire etc

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North · Guru

Trunk lights are also quite different, Canadian car use the optional chevy light that mounts inside the trunk near the lip, again with a mercury switch. The US models came standard with a trunk light and it was a Pontiac specific unit that mounts on the left trunk lid hinge bracket, operated by a spring loaded lever arm.

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North · Guru

Trunk structure is quite different, trunk pans are similar but not exactly, Canadian car has the tank vent tube up by the right wheel tub while US car has vent on the filler pipe passing through the trunk latch area. Canadian car has extra bracing along the length of the inner rear quarter as well as a vertical brace, US model has neither but feels far more rigid when driving over bumps. I suspect the reason is that the US frame is massively bigger and heavier. Lastly for this area the US trunk mat is a fiber type material with foam backing while the Canadian one is a rubbery type material you see on Camaros. Both helped rot out trunk pans but the Canadian one must be the worst since the water under it will never dry.

The inner half of the tubs are not exactly identical but look interchangeable. The outer half though look quite different in shape (hard to see in photos. The little hole in the tub flange down near the trunk pan is for the optional US only power antenna. Both cars would have a front mount antenna as standard with a radio but the Canadian models had an optional rear mount but manual only, US models had a rear mount option but power only. Earlier year Canadian Ponchos had a power antenna option but not in 69.

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-- Edited by North on Thursday 27th of May 2021 12:38:13 PM

-- Edited by North on Thursday 27th of May 2021 12:39:36 PM

North · Guru

last two areas today is the rear valence and trunklid lip. Valance on US models is smooth and flattish the whole width. The Canadian model needed a different valance to cope with the chevy frame protruding more (probably conforming the the rear body styling of the 69 Impala. So the Canadian valance has a more bulging shape throughout but especially below the tag-gas door.

Trunklids look the same outside (with the previously mentioned exception for the Parisienne-2+2 being a unique combination of short trunk and long taillights not seen on any US models) but surprisingly all the Canadian trunklids have a fatter inner structure around the lip area than the US cars do. This is what forced the use of barrel nut type fastening of emblems while US models with there thin lip structure could use traditional screw on nuts. Why they did this differently I don't know, was it related to using a chevy trunklid inner structure in Canada?

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Jacob · Addicted!

so if i can get catalina quarter panels they will fit on my parisienne? I was under the impression they where different as of where the weal well is?

ABC123 · Uber Guru

Just a note on the trunk,

On the Canadian convertibles, there is no substructure inside the quarter panels.

Just like the Catalina.

May be because of the boxed frame.

Note,

That Bonneville antenna bolted right in, using the Catalina 1/4 panel measurements you gave me to cut the hole.

The Canadian and American rear wheel wells have that eye hole in the exact same location to receive the power antenna but the hole is not used for a Canadian manual Antenna.

ABC123 · Uber Guru

And now that you have my curiosity,

Inside the trunk, by the rear tail panel, this cover, circled below, was only used in Canada on Convertibles.

Was it used in the American cars ?

68 Grande · Guru

Here is a question on US - Cdn comparison for a 2 door hard top.

Is the bottom of the cowl at the bottom of the door pillar on the 2 door HT US car the same as the Cdn model? So, the area of the pillar where the bottom door hinges bolt on the door pillar/cowl and moving lower down right down to the bottom of the cowl the same on both Cdn and US models?

-- Edited by 68 Grande on Wednesday 2nd of June 2021 08:10:03 AM

ABC123 · Uber Guru

Jacob wrote:
so if i can get catalina quarter panels they will fit on my parisienne? I was under the impression they where different as of where the weal well is?

Yes, they are almost identical.

There was a Catalina N.O.S. one for sale here a few years ago.

It went to a good Canadian home near me.

MC · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

North wrote:
Wiper area and firewall
Canadian first then US...
As you can see the wiper arrangement is completely different. This shows up in the hood and upper rear areas of the fenders. The Canadian car has the entire area raised while the US models have a raised area only in the center. chrome moldings are therefore completely different.

I have to say that I like the Canadian version better than the American in this case. I always thought the entire raised rear section of the hood to hide the wipers looked very cool. (Though not so much when you were digging packed snow and ice out of them in the winter...)

North · Guru

Catalina quarters interchange with Canadian models.