Starting Issue

seventy2plus2 · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

Starting Issue

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

gtodrive wrote:
cdnpont wrote:
Good you're narrowing it down.
It's a problem that I have never run into before. Before I used the remote starter switch on it, I had a friend try to start it turning the key, while I was observing the starter. I determined, that when the starter would just "click", the starter gear was not engaging and hitting the flywheel. I thought maybe it was an alignment issue, like previously suggested, but when I attached the remote switch, I could not get it to repeat the problem. I read that it could be a power loss when the starter bendix retracts and doesn't return all the way. So, that is what I am going on. Time will tell!

It sure sounds like enough of a voltage drop on the purple wire from the ignition switch to the solenoid. I had that on my 65 Acadian and could never get it cured. I finally gave in and installed a remote (Ford) solenoid as well hidden as I could. Never an issue after that.

cdnpont · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

If the solenoid fails to properly energize, then yes, it certainly could get hung up. Interesting that on the 69 Engine wiring diagram they show the Purple to the solenoid as being 12 gauge. In 65 (and 66?) it was 16. So it became a big wire for a reason, the solenoid coil obviously needs a good hit to engage it, judging by how heavy the wire is.

There are also 6 connections to get you to the Ignition switch plug. And then you have the switch itself and it's feed. I guess you start on the solenoid to the cowl plug connections?

You'll get her.

gtodrive · Guru

4SPEED427 wrote:
gtodrive wrote:
cdnpont wrote:
Good you're narrowing it down.
It's a problem that I have never run into before. Before I used the remote starter switch on it, I had a friend try to start it turning the key, while I was observing the starter. I determined, that when the starter would just "click", the starter gear was not engaging and hitting the flywheel. I thought maybe it was an alignment issue, like previously suggested, but when I attached the remote switch, I could not get it to repeat the problem. I read that it could be a power loss when the starter bendix retracts and doesn't return all the way. So, that is what I am going on. Time will tell!
It sure sounds like enough of a voltage drop on the purple wire from the ignition switch to the solenoid. I had that on my 65 Acadian and could never get it cured. I finally gave in and installed a remote (Ford) solenoid as well hidden as I could. Never an issue after that.

This I have thought about doing. Again, the confusing part is how it will click when I turn the key 2 or 3 times, then start on the third or fourth try. Again, it appears like an intermittent voltage drop. I will do an upgrade on the wiring and go from there. If all else fails, I will try a relay. Thanks for the input!

gtodrive · Guru

cdnpont wrote:
If the solenoid fails to properly energize, then yes, it certainly could get hung up. Interesting that on the 69 Engine wiring diagram they show the Purple to the solenoid as being 12 gauge. In 65 (and 66?) it was 16. So it became a big wire for a reason, the solenoid coil obviously needs a good hit to engage it, judging by how heavy the wire is.
There are also 6 connections to get you to the Ignition switch plug. And then you have the switch itself and it's feed. I guess you start on the solenoid to the cowl plug connections?
You'll get her.

The purple wire to the solenoid, was replaced with a 12 gauge wire that runs directly from the NSS to the solenoid. I will replace that with a 10 gauge wire and verify the integrity of all the other wiring and connections along with installing a new ignition switch. I will get there, eventually. Thanks for the help!

gtodrive · Guru

Update: So the starting problem is fixed! To begin, I replaced the older battery cables with new 2 gauge cables. I bolted the negative cable to the engine block and attached a ground strap at the same point, and secured it to the frame. I then pulled the starter, cleaned the mounting surface and attached a braided ground strap from the starter to the engine block. I inspected the 12 gauge wire from the 'S' terminal and it looked fine, but decided to run a new 10 gauge wire anyway. The positive cable at the starter and the 'S' terminal wire, have been shielded with heat resistant wire sheathing. An inspection of the wires to the ignition switch, determined they were all good. Over the past 2 weeks, I have taken the car on several 3-4 hour drives, stopping and turning off the car at various destinations. The car has NEVER started this good! No more 'click' noise, when turning the key until it would start, and no more slow 'weak battery' sound, while starting when hot! I never had an issue with bad grounds before, but I believe that is what caused the problems I was experiencing. Thanks for all the suggestions and advice!

Pontiacanada · A Poncho Legend!

You can never have enough solid grounds.

This guy gave me a bunch of aerospace grade ground straps that I intend to use in the future.

cdnpont · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

Good work, I'm sure it feels satisfying to finally hunt this one down. And yes, as much as it's cliché, the grounds are always a good place to start.

I always make sure I have good or new engine to firewall straps as well in place when I detail a compartment. A lot of times they are broken, removed or forgotten in 50 years.

ABC123 · Uber Guru

seventy2plus2 wrote:
Napa part #'s:
Positive: 714514. 45", 4 gauge,
Negative: 712914. 29", 4 gauge.

This is really great to hear,

I should order some new cables.

Is there a part number for 2 gauge cables ?

gtodrive · Guru

cdnpont wrote:
Good work, I'm sure it feels satisfying to finally hunt this one down. And yes, as much as it's cliché, the grounds are always a good place to start.
I always make sure I have good or new engine to firewall straps as well in place when I detail a compartment. A lot of times they are broken, removed or forgotten in 50 years.

It definitely is a victory Mark. Just because a ground looks good, doesnt mean its making a good contact to the metal. I replaced the engine to chassis and chassis to frame grounds after I got the car. I checked those again during this process and used star washers to give them a bite into the metal.

gtodrive · Guru

ABC123 wrote:
seventy2plus2 wrote:
Napa part #'s:
Positive: 714514. 45", 4 gauge,
Negative: 712914. 29", 4 gauge.
This is really great to hear,
I should order some new cables.
Is there a part number for 2 gauge cables ?

No part number, as I ordered them from a company called Wiring Depot. I picked the gauge and the length I needed.