1969 2+2 convertible - Upgrade intake and carburetor

papapontiac · Member

1969 2+2 convertible - Upgrade intake and carburetor

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

My reply about the distributor won't be popular but for everyday street driving the stock points unit is just fine. If you are doing some racing an HEI might be a good upgrade.

You will likely need to bend a new fuel line from pump to carb. Please don't just use rubber hose like lots of guys do, that is a fire just waiting to happen.

CdnGMfan · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

Neat Car! A 396 2-barrel.
The Edelbrock 1406, is that the spread bore Quadrajet-continuation version? If so it would be a great street carb. Dinky primaries for economy and large secondaries for power.
If you drive with a heavy foot, the 2-barrel is your fiscally-responsible friend, however, if you want maximum flexibility (including the ability to sip or guzzle fuel), go with the induction you are planning to run.

Points ignition worked fine for millions of cars, but you have to set them periodically. So what, once a season? Unless your spark is breaking up, a stock ignition system with the original reliable stock coil will be fine. As an alternative you could run a GM HEI distributor & coil from a later model. They are reliable and give a fat spark.

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

CdnGMfan wrote:
Neat Car! A 396 2-barrel.

??? I am seeing a small block in his picture?

seventy2plus2 · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

Just an FYI - the valve covers have been off before, and put back on the wrong sides. The oil filler cap should be on the drivers side, with the filler near the brake booster.

To make it simple, just keep the original distributor. It looks like the wires are run the factory way, sort of behind the rear corners of the engine. The wires for the forward 4 cylinders (1, 2, 3 & 4) route through the motor mounts for a clean look.

I haven't looked at the intake and carb you're thinking of, just make sure the thermostat housing is in the same place as your existing intake, as the alternator bracket bolts on to it.

papapontiac · Member

thanks...it's a 350 with a powerglide transmission. Engine code CNU from St. Catherines, Ontario - (McKinnon Industries Canada)

I only use it for everyday driving but thought it would be fun to do some upgrades. It runs great and I've had no problems. I am leaning to staying with the points.

The edlebrock 1406 is a square bore and the Weiand is a spread bore so I am using an adapter plate for the install and I really don't want to be fiscally responsible when driving anymore...it's more about the enjoyment now....although parts are not that cheap. LOL

I would love to run hard lines instead of rubber but I would need some ideas on how best to accomplish that. Do I need to run a new hard line from the fuel pump or can I tie into the exiting steel line. I know edlebrock has a nice fuel line kit but I am not sure what to tie into. The kit is #8134 chrome kit. Also, do I risk messing with the existing fuel pump...which is not leaking.

I'll keep adding pics...I know it helps.

thanks for your feedback and help

-- Edited by papapontiac on Friday 27th of September 2024 12:20:07 AM

papapontiac · Member

thanks seventy2plus2...but wouldn't that change the pcv/air hoses? the passenger vent hose goes into the air filter and the pcv into the back of the carb.

Everyone says keep the distributor so that makes sense and the plug wires do run through the mounts although they are a PTA to access. Looks like the thermostat will work with the alt bracket...I have added pics for the carb and intake....btw, does anyone know what thermostat I should put in there...I would like to get a new one?

Keep the help coming...this is great

CdnGMfan · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

Ha ha ha! I should try turning my head sideways. Definitely a small block. Jeez..

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

papapontiac wrote:
thanks seventy2plus2...but wouldn't that change the pcv/air hoses? the passenger vent hose goes into the air filter and the pcv into the back of the carb.
Everyone says keep the distributor so that makes sense and the plug wires do run through the mounts although they are a PTA to access. Looks like the thermostat will work with the alt bracket...I have added pics for the carb and intake....btw, does anyone know what thermostat I should put in there...I would like to get a new one?
Keep the help coming...this is great

I have a strong bias because I was a GM parts manager for 40 years but honestly the only thermostats that seemed to last for us at the dealership were genuine GM stats. We had tons of trouble with aftermarket stats. If you can get a GM 180* thermostat that would be my suggestion. I can get the GM number for you if you like.

cdnpont · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

Hello and welcome papapontaic!

I'd be inclined to keep the 2 barrel. Honestly, they run very well, requiring very little tuning, and provide unmatched throttle response and smoothness at lower rpm's. Great fuel economy as well. Of course they lack any underhood talking points, and limit the overall peak HP and "pull" that a well tuned 4 barrel will provide. My 69 (almost a twin to yours) has the 2GV and a somewhat rare PG and I have to say I'm really liking that simple combo being a old car guy. Years back I would have been all over the motor, not anymore as I'm just happy to cruise. But all said, a well tuned 4 barrel will certainly add to the fun.

The Edelbrock 1405 or 1406 will usually not run well out of the box, and will require a tuning kit and some focus to run right. That's to be considered.

If you are set on electronic ignition, simply covert your existing dist to a Pertronix II with the matching coil. Easily done. It's a personal choice, but I just do not like the big ugly cap on a HEI dist, I like the small cap. Simply an esthetic thing.

You could also consider a new fuel pump to go with the carb at this time.

Fuel line. Buy a single feed line and filter for the 1406, it's AN-6. Buy a straight 3/8 NPT to -6 AN adapter for the new fuel pump and run a section of -6 line from the pump up to the filter. I did all this on a 350 with a 1406 and it worked well. The braided line makes it easy to route.

Cheers.

papapontiac · Member

cdnpont wrote:
Hello and welcome papapontaic!
I'd be inclined to keep the 2 barrel. Honestly, they run very well, requiring very little tuning, and provide unmatched throttle response and smoothness at lower rpm's. Great fuel economy as well. Of course they lack any underhood talking points, and limit the overall peak HP and "pull" that a well tuned 4 barrel will provide. My 69 (almost a twin to yours) has the 2GV and a somewhat rare PG and I have to say I'm really liking that simple combo being a old car guy. Years back I would have been all over the motor, not anymore as I'm just happy to cruise. But all said, a well tuned 4 barrel will certainly add to the fun.
The Edelbrock 1405 or 1406 will usually not run well out of the box, and will require a tuning kit and some focus to run right. That's to be considered.
If you are set on electronic ignition, simply covert your existing dist to a Pertronix II with the matching coil. Easily done. It's a personal choice, but I just do not like the big ugly cap on a HEI dist, I like the small cap. Simply an esthetic thing.
You could also consider a new fuel pump to go with the carb at this time.
Fuel line. Buy a single feed line and filter for the 1406, it's AN-6. Buy a straight 3/8 NPT to -6 AN adapter for the new fuel pump and run a section of -6 line from the pump up to the filter. I did all this on a 350 with a 1406 and it worked well. The braided line makes it easy to route.

Cheers.

Hi and thanks for the welcome,

I hear you re: 2 bbl but I have the 1406 so I thought I would give it a try and of course, it looks good under the hood. Might need to tune it hopefully it won't be too challenging. Btw, what is a 2GV and PG? and it would be great to see a picture of your car to compare, if possible.

I think I'll stay with points for now...I can always change it later if I want. Need to manage costs.

thank you for the link re: fuel pump; is that the one you recommend for my set up? that 1722 seems to be for big blocks?

I ordered the 1406 single feed line. I like the idea of solid fuel lines and it looks good as well. Any chance you or anyone has a picture of a completed setup? it helps with the routing.

seventy2plus2 · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

papapontiac wrote:
thanks seventy2plus2...but wouldn't that change the pcv/air hoses? the passenger vent hose goes into the air filter and the pcv into the back of the carb.
Everyone says keep the distributor so that makes sense and the plug wires do run through the mounts although they are a PTA to access. Looks like the thermostat will work with the alt bracket...I have added pics for the carb and intake....btw, does anyone know what thermostat I should put in there...I would like to get a new one?
Keep the help coming...this is great

Re the valve covers, the pvc/air hose outlets are in the same place on both covers. Take the passenger side valve cover, spin it 180 degrees and install it on the drivers side (so the filler hole is by the brake booster). The drivers side valve cover then spins 180 degrees and installs on the passenger side. That way you won't need to remove the air cleaner to add oil, and the filler hole will be by the dipstick.

Re the spark plug wires, yes running the forward 4 cylinders through the motor mounts is a bit of a pain, but how often are you replacing wires? Likely only every 5 or 6 years at most.

CdnGMfan · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

papapontiac wrote:
..Btw, what is a 2GV and PG? ...

2GV = Rochester 2GV carburetor

PG = Powerglide 2-speed automatic

papapontiac · Member

4SPEED427 wrote:
papapontiac wrote:
thanks seventy2plus2...but wouldn't that change the pcv/air hoses? the passenger vent hose goes into the air filter and the pcv into the back of the carb.
Everyone says keep the distributor so that makes sense and the plug wires do run through the mounts although they are a PTA to access. Looks like the thermostat will work with the alt bracket...I have added pics for the carb and intake....btw, does anyone know what thermostat I should put in there...I would like to get a new one?
Keep the help coming...this is great
I have a strong bias because I was a GM parts manager for 40 years but honestly the only thermostats that seemed to last for us at the dealership were genuine GM stats. We had tons of trouble with aftermarket stats. If you can get a GM 180* thermostat that would be my suggestion. I can get the GM number for you if you like.

I will take a look when I get if off...I am getting close.

papapontiac · Member

CdnGMfan wrote:
papapontiac wrote:
..Btw, what is a 2GV and PG? ...

2GV = Rochester 2GV carburetor
PG = Powerglide 2-speed automatic

Got it...now it makes sense. :)

papapontiac · Member

seventy2plus2 wrote:
papapontiac wrote:
thanks seventy2plus2...but wouldn't that change the pcv/air hoses? the passenger vent hose goes into the air filter and the pcv into the back of the carb.
Everyone says keep the distributor so that makes sense and the plug wires do run through the mounts although they are a PTA to access. Looks like the thermostat will work with the alt bracket...I have added pics for the carb and intake....btw, does anyone know what thermostat I should put in there...I would like to get a new one?
Keep the help coming...this is great
Re the valve covers, the pvc/air hose outlets are in the same place on both covers. Take the passenger side valve cover, spin it 180 degrees and install it on the drivers side (so the filler hole is by the brake booster). The drivers side valve cover then spins 180 degrees and installs on the passenger side. That way you won't need to remove the air cleaner to add oil, and the filler hole will be by the dipstick.
Re the spark plug wires, yes running the forward 4 cylinders through the motor mounts is a bit of a pain, but how often are you replacing wires? Likely only every 5 or 6 years at most.

very helpful and thanks for the detailed explanation. Easy to see now.

It is easy to get carried away with changing parts...new ones always look so good; but not cheap

papapontiac · Member

Just a quick question. Do you know the size bolts needed for the manifold? I think the standard is 3/8-16x1.25 but I have taken 3 different length bolts out of the old manifold -- 3/4 in and 1in and 1 1/8 in.

Many recommend ARP 134-2101 but I also heard that the 2 inner bolts might need to be shorter so as not to hit the pushrod.

Thoughts?

seventy2plus2 · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

I'd say that intake has been off before, as it's missing the engine lift brackets on the front left and right rear of the intake. In stock form, I think all the intake bolts are the same with the flanged head, with the exception of the bolts holding the lift brackets. They're a bit longer, and use lock washers.

papapontiac · Member

seventy2plus2 wrote:
I'd say that intake has been off before, as it's missing the engine lift brackets on the front left and right rear of the intake. In stock form, I think all the intake bolts are the same with the flanged head, with the exception of the bolts holding the lift brackets. They're a bit longer, and use lock washers.

I agree. There is no need for the lift brackets so would the stock length be 1 1/4 or 1 1/8?

seventy2plus2 · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

papapontiac wrote:
seventy2plus2 wrote:
I'd say that intake has been off before, as it's missing the engine lift brackets on the front left and right rear of the intake. In stock form, I think all the intake bolts are the same with the flanged head, with the exception of the bolts holding the lift brackets. They're a bit longer, and use lock washers.
I agree. There is no need for the lift brackets so would the stock length be 1 1/4 or 1 1/8?

I did a little poking around the internet, the stock length of the intake bolts is 1-1/4".

papapontiac · Member

seventy2plus2 wrote:
papapontiac wrote:
seventy2plus2 wrote:
I'd say that intake has been off before, as it's missing the engine lift brackets on the front left and right rear of the intake. In stock form, I think all the intake bolts are the same with the flanged head, with the exception of the bolts holding the lift brackets. They're a bit longer, and use lock washers.
I agree. There is no need for the lift brackets so would the stock length be 1 1/4 or 1 1/8?
I did a little poking around the internet, the stock length of the intake bolts is 1-1/4".

Thank you...that was what I got also. It is nice to have someone to confirm it with...

seventy2plus2 · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

Here's what the engine lift brackets look like. I should have a pair of them somewhere if you wanted to add them. (Please excuse my dusty engine, it sports it's original paint job, but is due for a good wash)

papapontiac · Member

The pictures are very helpful but I already ordered the 1 1/4 bolts so I think I'll leave them off.

Here are the next steps on my project...just need to clean it up and wait for more parts. So far so good, I am enjoying the learning.

BTW, if I was going to change the fuel pump, do you know what pump to buy...I think it will need a 3/4 NPT outlet so I can used metal braided lines but I don't know which pump? Edelbrock says no more that 6.5 psi fuel pressure.

-- Edited by papapontiac on Sunday 29th of September 2024 08:58:47 PM

-- Edited by papapontiac on Sunday 29th of September 2024 09:01:47 PM

-- Edited by papapontiac on Sunday 29th of September 2024 09:02:07 PM

-- Edited by papapontiac on Sunday 29th of September 2024 09:04:04 PM

-- Edited by papapontiac on Sunday 29th of September 2024 09:05:16 PM