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Canadian Poncho Homepage -> Canadian Poncho -> 65-70 Full Size Power Train Tech Forum -> Need an Unbiased Opinion on how much this 396/400 turbo is worth
Post Info TOPIC: Need an Unbiased Opinion on how much this 396/400 turbo is worth
66 Grande guy


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Need an Unbiased Opinion on how much this 396/400 turbo is worth
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Hi guys I pulled this out of a 67 Pontiac GP lately but have no plans for it myself at the moment. It was not original to the car but the date code on the intake indicates it is a 1967 build and the engine number indicates it came with a Turbo 400 which is still attached. The engine/ tranny is very very complete and unmolested right down to the cable engine mount recall units and a driveshaft with the correct yoke. It does turn over freely but i have not tried to actually run it. It would certainly need a rebuild but it is all there right down to the linkages and the aircleaner wingnut. I have slightly dented the rocker cover on the right pulling it out but that is it for damage.

Here are some pics. i haven't  to flog one of these for a long while so I don't even know what they would be worth as a ballpark number so I was hoping for some honest opinions



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ken from northern Alberta

38 Willys pickup electric

39 Buick (327 with 700 r4)

66 Beaumont 4 door hardtop

69 Chevy CST pickup

1976 GMC 23'  motorhome

1994 Impala SS 

1968 Citroen Fourgonnette (Yeah Carl!)
cdnpont


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$4000?

It sure looks clean. Not a pile of rust or grease. All there. Good builder possibly, and the 67 M40 is a no brainer.

I'd like it in my shed..

Screenshot 2024-10-29 204410.jpg



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 67 Grande Parisienne 4 door HT. 69 Parisienne Convertible.
 
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66 Grande guy


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Love to hear more opinions. Lets see if anybody can pick out the one thing that is incorrect on it.  POP QUIZ!



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ken from northern Alberta

38 Willys pickup electric

39 Buick (327 with 700 r4)

66 Beaumont 4 door hardtop

69 Chevy CST pickup

1976 GMC 23'  motorhome

1994 Impala SS 

1968 Citroen Fourgonnette (Yeah Carl!)
cdnpont


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Can't be that push in breather? No.



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 67 Grande Parisienne 4 door HT. 69 Parisienne Convertible.
 
cdnpont


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cheat reference.

67 396 325

3876081454_123d68edc7_c.jpg



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 67 Grande Parisienne 4 door HT. 69 Parisienne Convertible.
 
4SPEED427


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66 Grande guy wrote:

Love to hear more opinions. Lets see if anybody can pick out the one thing that is incorrect on it.  POP QUIZ!

 Water pump pulley is for an A/C car but the crank pulley isn't.



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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles 

1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars (now converted to a "factory" 4 speed)
66 Grande guy


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I sorta  figured it would be you as you are the guy that ended up with the original one!



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ken from northern Alberta

38 Willys pickup electric

39 Buick (327 with 700 r4)

66 Beaumont 4 door hardtop

69 Chevy CST pickup

1976 GMC 23'  motorhome

1994 Impala SS 

1968 Citroen Fourgonnette (Yeah Carl!)
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4SPEED427


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66 Grande guy wrote:

I sorta  figured it would be you as you are the guy that ended up with the original one!

 You lost me. Are you saying that is the original top pulley from my car?

Or this 396 in the picture used to have A/C on it and my car has the bottom pulley from it?

 



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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles 

1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars (now converted to a "factory" 4 speed)
66 Grande guy


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A few years back you had wanted to get a non ac top pulley so I took the one off this car and sent it to you. i seem to remember you had a spare ac pulley so we swapped.



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ken from northern Alberta

38 Willys pickup electric

39 Buick (327 with 700 r4)

66 Beaumont 4 door hardtop

69 Chevy CST pickup

1976 GMC 23'  motorhome

1994 Impala SS 

1968 Citroen Fourgonnette (Yeah Carl!)
4SPEED427


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Ah, gotcha. That's where that one went. Beaumontguru and I were just talking about dual water pump pulleys last week and I knew the one I had in a box here was gone, forgot where.



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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles 

1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars (now converted to a "factory" 4 speed)
Shrike


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What is the 67 Grande it came out of like? Looks like a good candidate for someone wanting a correct big block for a build. On a side note, can anyone point out all the differences between a 67 427 and a 69 427. If someone were to have a 69 427 to put in a 67, what would need to be changed to make it "correct"?


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Shrike


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Are you in Alberta? I know of a member here from Alberta who mentioned he was looking for a big block for his Grande. Is it for sale?



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4SPEED427


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Shrike wrote:

On a side note, can anyone point out all the differences between a 67 427 and a 69 427. If someone were to have a 69 427 to put in a 67, what would need to be changed to make it "correct"?

 All the brackets for alternator, power steering etc changed.

The water pump, power steering pump and all the pulleys changed. 

The exhaust manifolds changed (if we're talking about B body fitment). 

Use the correct engine side mounts for a 67, just bolt them on the 69 engine.

67 oil filter is a cannister, 69 is a spin on but that really won't affect the swap at all, just wanted to mention it. 

Otherwise they are pretty much identical. I think 67 and 69 still use the same oil filler cap, breather cap and PCV hose/valve setup?



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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles 

1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars (now converted to a "factory" 4 speed)
Shrike


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Interesting. So the alternator was on the passenger side in 69?
I guess the air cleaner snorkel is on opposite side too. I wonder why they decided to switch it up that way?
Are the 396 and 427 externally identical for their respective years?

Apologies for all the questions. I am kind of a nut for knowing all the little details .



-- Edited by Shrike on Tuesday 29th of October 2024 10:40:27 PM

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LT1Caddy


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Ken... you are going to have to find a guy who is restoring a numbers ( or close ) matching car. The tranny... most guys are looking to get some "mileage", so they want overdrive..200 or 700R.
The 396 is not desirable, small CID, oval port heads/intake, Rochester carb, ....no go fast parts.
You have to take your "heart" out of this deal. You can hang on to it and it will sit in the corner of the garage until the right guy comes along. Or sell it and use the $$ to build your 502 BB.
If (BIG if) you can get $1800 for the engine and tranny, take the $$.

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66 Grande guy


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I've actually got three 67 Grande Sport coupes. One was a 327 car with turbo 400 and that is the one somebody had put the 396 in. its very complete (except  for no engine/tranny now) with a really good body except for a dented quarter and rust  over the rear wheels.  The second is a very rusty but complete 327 turbo 400 car and the third is a very rusty non original engine but original AC car.  Between the three there are some good options like the AC,  power rear antenna and speed warning dash, buckets, console. shaded glass.  The frame is excellent on the engineless car and i think they are good on the others as well. All have the 4 link suspension.  I have a pending deal for all three but the guy is really slow to do anything so I'm thinking of telling him its off if I had any other real interest.  The 396 would be a separate sale.

It all would make for would one nice 396 AC Grande project, that I'm not going to get to. I'm a Citroen guy now!



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ken from northern Alberta

38 Willys pickup electric

39 Buick (327 with 700 r4)

66 Beaumont 4 door hardtop

69 Chevy CST pickup

1976 GMC 23'  motorhome

1994 Impala SS 

1968 Citroen Fourgonnette (Yeah Carl!)
4SPEED427


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Shrike wrote:

Interesting. So the alternator was on the passenger side in 69?  Yes, it moved over when all the brackets, pullies, water pump etc changed for 1969.


I guess the air cleaner snorkel is on opposite side too. I wonder why they decided to switch it up that way? It seems to me they changed the snorkel side to use a heat stove on the air cleaner for the cold weather driveability?


Are the 396 and 427 externally identical for their respective years? Yes, if you strip off all the accessories, other than the numbers on the engine and the cannister oil filter, you can't tell them apart.

 

Apologies for all the questions. I am kind of a nut for knowing all the little details . No apology needed, very good questions!



 



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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles 

1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars (now converted to a "factory" 4 speed)
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66 Grande guy


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LT1Caddy wrote:


Ken... you are going to have to find a guy who is restoring a numbers ( or close ) matching car. The tranny... most guys are looking to get some "mileage", so they want overdrive..200 or 700R.
The 396 is not desirable, small CID, oval port heads/intake, Rochester carb, ....no go fast parts.
You have to take your "heart" out of this deal. You can hang on to it and it will sit in the corner of the garage until the right guy comes along. Or sell it and use the $$ to build your 502 BB.
If (BIG if) you can get $1800 for the engine and tranny, take the $$.

 Thanks for that quite realistic assessment.  I'll see if anybody else chips in. I'm not in a huge burry so it can sit. it would be nice to use such a complete setup in the right car for it, ultimately. 



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ken from northern Alberta

38 Willys pickup electric

39 Buick (327 with 700 r4)

66 Beaumont 4 door hardtop

69 Chevy CST pickup

1976 GMC 23'  motorhome

1994 Impala SS 

1968 Citroen Fourgonnette (Yeah Carl!)
4SPEED427


A Poncho Legend!

Status: Online
Posts: 50196
Date:
Permalink  

66 Grande guy wrote:

I've actually got three 67 Grande Sport coupes. One was a 327 car with turbo 400 and that is the one somebody had put the 396 in. its very complete (except  for no engine/tranny now) with a really good body except for a dented quarter and rust  over the rear wheels.  The second is a very rusty but complete 327 turbo 400 car and the third is a very rusty non original engine but original AC car.  Between the three there are some good options like the AC,  power rear antenna and speed warning dash, buckets, console. shaded glass.  The frame is excellent on the engineless car and i think they are good on the others as well. All have the 4 link suspension.  I have a pending deal for all three but the guy is really slow to do anything so I'm thinking of telling him its off if I had any other real interest.  The 396 would be a separate sale.

It all would make for would one nice 396 AC Grande project, that I'm not going to get to. 

 Do you deliver to Manitoba?



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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles 

1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars (now converted to a "factory" 4 speed)
LT1Caddy


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66 Grande guy wrote:

I've actually got three 67 Grande Sport coupes. One was a 327 car with turbo 400 and that is the one somebody had put the 396 in. 

 Ok.... Now talking SB.

You can build a killer SB 475 HP street, get 20 MPG. Tell everyone its a 327 with headers....  stroker crank, aluminum heads painted orange, LT1 manifold, Holley , idle like 283. Same $$ or cheaper than BB and whip every BB in town!!!!



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4SPEED427


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LT1Caddy wrote:
66 Grande guy wrote:

I've actually got three 67 Grande Sport coupes. One was a 327 car with turbo 400 and that is the one somebody had put the 396 in. 

 Ok.... Now talking SB.

You can build a killer SB 475 HP street, get 20 MPG. Tell everyone its a 327 with headers....  stroker crank, aluminum heads painted orange, LT1 manifold, Holley , idle like 283. Same $$ or cheaper than BB and whip every BB in town!!!!

 Whip every big block with a small block? I don't think so!!!



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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles 

1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars (now converted to a "factory" 4 speed)
Shrike


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Any pictures of the Grande? How much quarter rust? color? options? trim?

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Shrike


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Another side note.... I see in the background of the picture of the 396, a locking gas cap. Were these a factory option or a dealer/aftermarket thing. When i bought a 69 Malibu years ago, it had a locked cap but no key and no code anywhere to get one cut. Had to drill it out. Curious if they came from factory with them?

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seventy2plus2


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I've got aftermarket locking gas caps on my cars. They were found in local junkyards, and rekeyed by a local locksmith.

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65 SD L79


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Carl, what year did they change from a non Dowell timing cover?



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