As the subject heading asks. Does anyone have info on how many 396 and 427 cars were built? I can find that 10 2+2 convertibles came with a 427 but what about other applications. The VVS I got for my 69 396 2+2 only indicated that 1943 2+2 coupes were made but no power train break down.
I can confirm that my data shows 10 Convertibles as well in 1969 with 427. I did a bit of research on this back in 2009 for an article I wrote for POCI.
I once read 14 427's in total but that is not confirmed.
14 total sounds pretty conservative. Off the top of my head there was a 4 door hardtop discussed here, there is the members green convertible and the red one in Edmonton area that Dave is looking into. There was a white one that came up and sold in one night in Winnipeg a couple years ago. Then the blue rotted out one from Ontario. I think there was talk of a 427 wagon as well. There is a guy in manitoba with 427 Grand Parisienne without its heart. I also tracked one down in west Manitoba off of Carl S's lead that went to the crushers.
I believe that report meant "10- 14 " L36's ( 390 hp) 4 spd installed in 2+2 models for 1969
There is the Gold 2+2 L36 4 spd in Ontario , and the Black L36 AT 2+2 convertible in Winnipeg that I know of. I also know of a 4 dr Grande Parisienne L36 that was parted eventually ( I had it stored at my place for a friend)
attached is the GM letter sent regarding the Blue 2+2 (that ended up getting parted , with some parts going to restore the Gold 2+2 in Ontario). It states then that there were only 12 L36 4 spd 2+2 's in produced 1969.
So how many were AT's ?
-- Edited by Howmac on Friday 13th of October 2017 05:23:56 PM
-- Edited by Howmac on Friday 13th of October 2017 05:26:41 PM
And further to Howmac's info, I have a GM Doc clearly stating 13 of the 2+2 models built in 1967 with L36 and M20. That is the total of both hardtop and convertibles. So the numbers were pretty similar for the 2+2 models in 1967 and 1969. Of course there were still L36 TH400 2+2 models in each year, as well as L36 cars of either transmission in the other passenger car models. I have copies of some documents that also lump in the corresponding Chevrolet models in the totals. I've long thought that if we gathered all the available GM Canada documents for 427 cars we would be able to break down the models into precise numbers.
I also think these rare Ponchos may be poised to increase in popularity and value, simply because they are now in a position to be much more recognized that just a few years ago. The national impala association has recently opened up its doors to the full-size Canadian Pontiac models. So as Time goes on, I can see these cars of ours being promoted alongside their more popular Chevy brethren. And if enough collectors start to realize these are the rarest 427 cars ever made, I think it bodes well for the values of these cars in the years to come. Just my thoughts.
Thinking back to that black convertible that was just advertised at $150,000, A few of us including myself were pretty sceptical of such a big number for the Canadian Pontiac. But just for conversation sake, Canadian Ponchos aside- what's the entry price for any other GM car built as a convertible with a factory installed 427? Or to take things further, a factory 427 4 speed convertible? Rarity doesn't always translate directly into high value, but these are some very nice looking cars that are mechanically identical to 427 Impalas. And our Canadian Ponchos are just that much more interesting!
-- Edited by Mondo Poncho on Friday 13th of October 2017 05:58:15 PM
Is there any engine break down for the full size Pontiacs? Mostly interested in the 396 and 427 numbers. See attached VVS doc you did for me a few years ago on my 69 396 2+2.
Thanks,
Eric
**
there is no meaningful interpretation as they are grouped with Chev and include all models with various options, best I can figure is around 6-700 with L66 in all full size pontiacs.
George Zapora
Vintage Vehicle Services
**
So I didn't get anything on the 427's. When I request my VVS for the 427 car I'll ask for breakdowns if available.
I am assuming he will only document the L36 427's when you ask. I'd be curious about the LS1's as well. I still have the cowl tag from my 69 LS1 Parisienne convert and I've never seen another one that I can recall.
__________________
1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles
1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars (now converted to a "factory" 4 speed)
867 is for convertible ,and apparently there was only 1 made ( L36/ M20) . That leaves 9 for hardtop models ( L36 / M20 ) , and we all know Morley's hardtop is dead now . That leaves only 8 hardtops built with L36/M20 . Yours is one of 8 !
-- Edited by Howmac on Saturday 3rd of September 2022 07:48:43 AM
The GM documentation for my 69 Parisienne LS1 427 says there were less than 400 full sized Pontiacs with the LS1 engine; no reference is made to the L36 engine, but if the GM documentation is correct for both engine (400 and 173) codes, there would have been less than 600 427 B body cars in 69. Not sure how that lines up with the reference to 1943 cars referred to in ABC123's docs.