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Post Info TOPIC: Piston ring and choosing the appropriate flex hone question.


Canadian Poncho Superstar!

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Piston ring and choosing the appropriate flex hone question.


Guys,

I took a head off my 327 today to see how much of a ring ridge I had. Turns out there is just a hint of it, in some spots I can't feel any. The engine had less than 50 thousand miles on it. So I'm not going with an overbore.

My cheap 327 budget plan was to cut the ridge, and just simply replace the piston with new 4" stock bore replacements, giving the bores a 45 ° glaze break with a Flex hone. Then install self gapped file fit rings. I've yet to flip it over and check the journal condition. If good it'll just get new bearings. New pistons are really cheap, like $150 Cdn.

Question about rings;

Is the current best practice to go with Plasma Moly coated ductile iron rings? Looking on line it seems they are the most commonly used ring today.

What grit hone should I use in the bores if running Moly rings?

Thanks, Mark

32220708128_2a40062fe9.jpg



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 67 Grande Parisienne 4 door HT. 69 Parisienne Convertible.
 


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It might re-ring fine. Best bet is to strip it, get it cleaned and get the bores measured. The engine shop will advise on the best rings. Do the cam bearings and Welch plugs while it is apart. In my experience bearings wear out faster than rings, as you are pulling it apart use some plastiguage and see what clearance is there. You can buy .001 bearings as well as standard.

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Thanks Byron. 

It'll be interesting to see the journals. 



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 67 Grande Parisienne 4 door HT. 69 Parisienne Convertible.
 


Canadian Poncho Superstar!

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The more I read the more I realize that ANY ring ridge means a re-bore. 

Where is my wallet? It's run off and hid.

 



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 67 Grande Parisienne 4 door HT. 69 Parisienne Convertible.
 


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Don't believe it Mark. You're reading too much!

I've done more ridge cut/re-ring jobs than bore jobs and never had one that burned oil yet.

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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles 

1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars (now converted to a "factory" 4 speed)



A Poncho Legend!

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Now this is good thinking, I had never thought to do this.

Mark, did you see this---


"You can measure the bore wear just below the ridge without using any high tech expensive equipment. Put a ring in the bore - square it up with a piston from the top.
measure the ring gap. Push the ring to the bottom of the bore, measure the ring gap. Divide the difference in the gaps by 3 (well 3.142 if you wish to be pedantic) and this is the wear on the bore diameter
And yes as stated the ridge is the unworn original diameter of the bore."

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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles 

1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars (now converted to a "factory" 4 speed)



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Excellent



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 67 Grande Parisienne 4 door HT. 69 Parisienne Convertible.
 
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Funny...just doing the same thing! Just on a 283..not the big 327.wink have you looked at Rock auto rebuild kits? Never heard of enginetech...but I'm sure they don't make their own parts,so could be getting the same parts as other kits? Just doing a stocker rebuild on mine and yes..may not need re bored..just see what the max allowance is on a stock bore and go from there. Have done this before...use the piston(inverted) to push the ring down...this will keep it true to the cyl wall. My project that has been sitting for 40 years(heads/intake off) at dads. Can also get sealedpower kit.

https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/chevrolet,1962,impala,4.6l+283cid+v8,1324932,engine,engine+rebuild+kit,5316

https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/chevrolet,1968,chevy+ii,5.3l+327cid+v8,1040320,engine,engine+rebuild+kit,5316

 

283 block.JPG



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A Poncho Legend!

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I saw Enginetech parts when I was shopping for my 427 stuff too. I'd never heard of them before either.

I went with my old tried and true supplier for rings, bearings, etc who I've bought from since the 80's.

www.northernautoparts.com/part/ek-er1194

They seem to have the best prices and always are good on the phone with me when I call. I didn't used to like Hastings rings way back when because my brother had major oil burning issues with them at his repair shop but I know guys now who use them and say they are fine. I used to always buy Sealed Power rings.



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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles 

1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars (now converted to a "factory" 4 speed)



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The Rock Auto kit for my engine IS cheaper than Northern Auto but I'm the kind of guy who's old and crusty, set in my ways! I am betting the Enginetech kits are fine, or they wouldn't be selling them.

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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles 

1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars (now converted to a "factory" 4 speed)



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Carl Stevenson wrote:

The Rock Auto kit for my engine IS cheaper than Northern Auto but I'm the kind of guy who's old and crusty, set in my ways! I am betting the Enginetech kits are fine, or they wouldn't be selling them.


 Notice I got my lifters out.....a week of soaking and tapping! Bores r good.smile



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Good stuff. That can be pretty stressful sometimes. It's a bit scary when you have to use some grunt to get them out. You worry how that bore is going to look.

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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles 

1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars (now converted to a "factory" 4 speed)

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Poncho Master!

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There's an Engine Tech here in Edmonton. It's an actual rebuild shop. We at work had experience with them and personally I wouldn't let them rebuild my wheelbarrow. But parts are parts. I'm talking about workmanship. My two bits.

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I hear you John, most of the places down here I wouldn't trust much with my stuff. Sometimes there is no choice. This time it appears I might have a choice. I might let them clean the block though..maybe.

Jim, I was blessed with lifters that just came right out with no effort, to which I'm thankful. If they were stuck, I would have pulled them up as far as they would go, then pulled the cam and maybe dropped them out the bottom?

Anyway, took some caps off and pulled 1-2 piston. Journals look to be in good condition, and I cannot feel ANY ring ridge, at least in these two bores. So maybe this 327 is candidate for a simple refresh?

46105110781_11842d8e5e_z.jpg46105081911_ca991bb69b_z.jpg

 



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 67 Grande Parisienne 4 door HT. 69 Parisienne Convertible.
 


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That has all the makings of a rings and bearings rebuild.

Are those hone marks showing in that cylinder?

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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles 

1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars (now converted to a "factory" 4 speed)



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I am surprised by the hone marks also. The piston rings used back then where hard as nails with lots of tension and wore the cylinder as much as the rings. Has the engine been rebuilt? I would clean off the tops of the pistons and check for being stamped oversize. I also agree with Carl, I reringed lots of engines back in the 70s with no problems. Some had such a high ridge that I had to ridge ream to get the pistons out. Back in the 70s, 80,000 miles was high mileage on a car. Most people traded every three to five years.

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Confident this engine has never been apart.

I'm even thinking about re-using the pistons and only doing new rings.. They are dirty, but could be cleaned up pretty easily. The skirts aren't even scuffed. Mind you, I only have two out so far.

46056362792_449a032864_z.jpg



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 67 Grande Parisienne 4 door HT. 69 Parisienne Convertible.
 
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I'm with Prefectca, the original top ring and oil rings on these were chrome plated rings and were hard on bores. It may just be a fairly low mile engine though.

If the bore comes up within tolerance, hone it, re-use the pistons and re-ring it. You can buy a tool to de-carbonise the ring slots. Before you pull all pistons out use some plastigauge on a few journals.

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Being very careful to get a square ring to bore, I measured the rig gap at the very top of the bore,  bore #1,

It's .036. 

About I" down, it's .0385,

And finally at the bottom of ring travel its .036 again.

So I see a .0025" difference. Divided by 3 is 8.33. How does the figure 8.33 relate to taper? 

I think I read anything under .005 it's ok to re-ring.



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 67 Grande Parisienne 4 door HT. 69 Parisienne Convertible.
 


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I'm not math major so someone correct me if I'm wrong, but this is my calculations and final answ!r.

.0385" - .0360" = .0025" divided by 3.14 (pi) = .0007956"

That's not even .001" taper.

You divide by pi because the .0025" is the difference in the circumference, and you want to know the difference in the diameter.

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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles 

1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars (now converted to a "factory" 4 speed)



A Poncho Legend!

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Like my 65 year old veteran engine builder friend in our shop always says, hone the sh*t out of it, put rings in it and it will be fine!

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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles 

1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars (now converted to a "factory" 4 speed)

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