This thread will make me want a 68 Grande 4 speed (or 5 spd). Thanks for making a note where parts cross over to 68's.

This will be very helpful to me if I decide to convert my 68 Bel Air to a 4 speed.  Fortunately I have everything described except the hump and the Muncie shifter. But I do have a Hurst shifter that fits this application. I will watch this one closely. Thanks for posting it. 

https://canadianponcho.activeboard.com/t64360126/1969-whats-special-about-four-speed-carpet/

I have spread the word on this issue as much as I could, including over at Chevytalk where one or two other guys have had the same issue. I don't understand why the manufacturers won't admit there is a problem and the carpet they sell for 65-67 4 speed cars is WAY wrong...

At the end this thread gets totally derailed but lots of info at the start at least---

www.chevytalk.org/fusionbb/showtopic.php%5C%5C%5C%5C%5C%5C%5C%7Cspeed%5C%5C%5C%5C%5C%5C%5C%7Ccarpet/tp/1/

In adding to this dormant post, I did a little work and mockup on the Muncie shifter. Cleaned it all up, and began to assemble it on the bench in an effort to see how it actually works.

Put the case together with no guts, but with the sidecover combs, spring and shifter forks in place. Figured out the rod configuration from a shop manual illustration. Cleaned up the rod threads.

Shifter levers were put in the neutral position, along with the case levers. Interestingly, this shifter has no neutral square "slot" so to speak of, just basically a half moon shaped slot. No place to fit a neutral gauge feeler. So it's basically find the position by eye while adjusting the rods. I'd made the red lines with the levers out of the case while observing the square slot being lined up all the way across. Maybe this half moon is a clue to as what model this unit came from. The 65 manual shows a slot. So any ideas? 

I'd bought two different "shims" as suggested by Carl Stevenson, to maybe take up some of the slack you might find in an old worn shifter. I've since found out that the "Shim" is actually more than that, it really is a protection gate inside the shifter to prevent a false reverse moving 1st to second. While the shifter lever has a lockout pin, still, it makes sense to have this extra square edged gate. It actually sits fixed in the body and divides the reverse/1st and 2nd levers. One shim was .073 (stock thickness), and the other is .099. Looks like the .099 will fit. Will need a trim (on the score lines on the black), as the replacements are actually Corvette parts. Identical everywhere but the ends. Another great solution from Carl, I don't think a identical replacement is available. 

Picture shows the "shim" in place, red arrow, yellow is the half moon slot for neutral. .099 shim shown how it would sit inside the cluster. The square slot is the gate. The lines on the black are the trim lines.

Mocked up, clamped to the bench.

So even with the stock shim, as mocked up, it rows and clicks through and across all the gears with ease. Mind you, it's a mockup without actual gears, but it still feels very good. Sweet! I can only imagine how nice it will be sitting on a bench while rowing! I think fitting the .099 shim will even make it sharper. Finding a nice even neutral across all the levers at the same time to start is the trick. I'll do one final neutral gate test before it goes in the car

I always love learning about something I knew zero about! Next, I'll put the M20 together. Cheers.

 

For anyone interested, more detail on the conversion. Here's a very good, not often seen image of an original factory 65 4 speed impala firewall. A small but mostly overlooked detail.

Shows the speedo cable, hangers and grommet position. Looks to be just a regular grommet for the most part. Not shown is the Fisher Body cable clip or tab under the passenger floorboard edge.

Notice the assembly manual calls for a 1" hole, and the automatic cable hole is to be plugged. Also the fW is described to be dimpled for the hanger bolts.

Is the grommet just a "regular grommet"? And is that underfloor tab in place on some or all cars? 

Full size image here

 

Added the cable 7/2020.

Used a step drill to cut the new 1" hole.

Used the 65 factory assembly illustration and factory dimples to position the clips and bolts. Used some Inline Tube fuel line clips and self drilling/tapping bolts.

Cut the new offshore repop grommet to get it over the cable, and glued it back together with Ultra Black. Clipped into the new 1" hole nicely.

If you have a good original grommet, the small cable nut can be teased through the grommet with a little effort. The repop was just too thick and hard to do so. 

 

 

 

Thanks for the great photo Mark. I have a more distant one of a 67 (same setup) but that's a great shot. Guess what I meant to do but forgot when I had my engine out last winter....

I plan to pull the trans, bellhousing and flywheel this winter so I hope to change it then.

And here's the original FW grommet. Factory cable had the grommet placed on before the ends were crimped on.

I had bought a Z Bar bracket from an Impala parts house. But the biggest issue is where to mount it on the frame? It's one of those things that really cant be measured very accurately.

It's been on my mind for some time now, so I figured that before I put the M20 together, I'd just mock it all up bare and just simply drop it in to simulate the positioning. Cleaned and zinc primed the landing spot for the bracket. Fitted the trans mount with two studs protruding down (where it would be bolted to the Crossmember). Centered it all with the firewall centerline, and raised it up with a strap to the point that the bar pretty much sat horizontal and square to the body. Also, since the crossmember holes are elongated, I just let it all sit about mid point in those holes. Used a small but long Bessy clamp to hold the bracket in place, accessed through the wheelhousing.

I figure one key part of this was to make sure the Zbar lever, clutch pedal side, sat in the right spot for when the rod comes through the wall, and into the little rod mounting block. Although it's probably pretty forgiving, I made sure the rod will center in that firewall hole. You can see this by the line in the image on the right. I think this is your best clue as to if you'd got it right.

Traced the location of the bracket as it sits. I think it's all good.

Now I can work on getting the M20 together. I'll weld the bracket when I detail/repair the engine compartment.

From a 65 Chevrolet assembly manual,

There should be a bit of a dip on the top of the inside edge of the frame rail to accommodate the z-bar. I was fortunate when I did mine as the body was off the chassis, and I had a bare block to bolt the bellhousing & tranny to. Once we put the z-bar in place, the small dip on the top of the frame rail was obvious.

cdnpont wrote:

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Clint, you can see just a hint of the divot you speak of in the right picture. The bar comes over right on top of it, so I suspect I'm in the right spot.

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Yup, I spotted it.