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Post Info TOPIC: 4-5 speed in the B, what does it involve?


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4-5 speed in the B, what does it involve?


CP'ers,

I'm getting close to making a transmission decision, I have a budget of around $2000. My original thinking was to go with a overdrive, a 700R4 with a 2000 stall lockup converter. A TCI streetfighter and a TCI converter, with the requisite cooler, TV cable etc. I've already moved my trans crossmember back accordingly.

But now my interest has been piqued with the thought of going with a 4 or 5 speed. Thanks Steve! 
I think of the nice new red bench and red carpet, and think how nice a white knobbed hurst shifter coming up and curving back would look. Deluxe trimmed pedals as well. Somthing a little different in a bench ragtop Parisienne. I'm not out for points here.

Could a strong 4 or T5 speed be done for around close to 2 grand? Would it stand up to a heavy car? I have a 3.73 gear.

I realize a Automatic is pretty much plug and play, but whats involved with a standard conversion here? I figure I'm in the company of great knowledge (and parts finders!)! Educate me.

Cheers, Mark.

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65 Laurentian post, 67 Grande Parisienne 4 door HT. 
 


A Poncho Legend!

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I've always liked Muncies and they are easy to put in that car. However, I know you are going to get a lot more up to date opinions on what to put in. Problem is, 2 grand won't get you a 5 speed of any quality.

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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 44,000 original miles 



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2 grand will get you an installed muncie though.
i'm converting that green impala to a 4spd mark. add the cross shaft bracket to the frame, hang the pedals,('69-'70 are slightly different, don't know if cdn pont are the same as chev?), scare up a 168 tooth bellhousing, correct fork/stud, flywheel, clutch, shifter and trans.
carl2 bailed out on his 4spd conversion, he probably has parts to 'donate'.

-- Edited by 69 belair at 14:42, 2008-11-09

-- Edited by 69 belair at 14:43, 2008-11-09

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I am wondering if anything but a Muncie will fit without cutting the floor, or does that affect your decision?

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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 44,000 original miles 



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Ahh, go all the way Mark. Get a Tremec 6 speed! I can't believe someone out there hasn't converted a B body before. I posted this question on Chevytalk but no one replied. Imagine the rear end gear you could run with a 6 speed!



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i put a t5 in my 55 gmc 2 years ago. nice to have the over drive. w/ 308 gear i rev 1800 at 65mph. i used a camaro T5 with a s10 tailpiece to move the shifter up for the truck plus it had the mechanical speedo drive. if you have horsepower over 400 or so. either take it easy or spend the big bucks. astrovans also came with t5 behind 4.3 and had hydraulic clutches. i have a saggy 4 speed in the beaumont wagon right now. but within the week that should be out and a t5 out of the astrovan should be in. i'm gonna use hydralic masters from a YJ and mate them to stock chevy II pedals. i see s10 w/ 5 sp in recycle yards all the time they can't be that hard to find. i got one out of tafts near brighton last year for $40. so make a shopping list and then accumulate the parts

-- Edited by Stephenzone at 21:57, 2008-11-09

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sTevE

55 GMC, 70 Pontiac 2+2 rag



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I have an S10 with a 5 speed...............................

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Poncho Master!

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Like Steve said. Be careful using a T5 or a saginaw behind anything with some power or torque. Tremec makes a nice 5 speed but I don't think it fit the budget. If you want to convert to a standard then do the swap which will definitely be in the budget and update it later. If you are thinking of a swapping to a Tremec later try and find a later Muncie or a BW T10 that already uses the big output shaft.
 The pedals are the same as what would have been in the Impala. Let me know if you need pedals. I have (had) a set from a 69 Pontiac with the neutral switch still attached.

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What fits with no floor cuts? Does the Tremec?

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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 44,000 original miles 



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Carl Stevenson wrote:

What fits with no floor cuts? Does the Tremec?



Where will the shifter come through the floor with no holes? rofl.gif

 Sorry I couldn't resist that one. Here is a link to a company that sells the trans kit. They say no console mods. I know that the Beaumont requires some floor modification to clear the rear of the case. Keisler is supposed to have redesigned the case so you don't have to cut the floor.



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A Poncho Legend!

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Yeah, yeah, everyone's a comic! I would think there would be a much better market for a trans that didn't need floor pan modifications.

Seems like they are getting more affordable all the time, or are we just making more and willing to spend more as we get older?

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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 44,000 original miles 



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lots of room under the floor of my 55 truck. only hole i had to cut was for the shifter.

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sTevE

55 GMC, 70 Pontiac 2+2 rag



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Here's a muncie if you want one.
Click here

Rick

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Poncho Master!

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Richmond makes a 5 and 6 speed od trans that is a virtual in and out for a muncie or borg warner 4 speed includes a Long or Hurst shifter, but they are $$$$$ $3200 for the 5 and about $3000 for the 6??? U.S. plus shipping.
Chris

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Poncho Master!

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There's a new 'Supercase' Muncie just coming available that doesn't stretch under high HP torque like the old cases...no idea on cost though..

smile.gif

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Thanks for all the input guys!

Ok, so I need a Muncie. Probably the easiest way to go. Yes, a T56 would be nice. Perhaps eventually if I was to convert. A T5 might not be up to the task.

 And a,

168 tooth bellhousing
168 tooth flywheel and bolts
Clutch
Throwout bearing
Clutch fork and boot
Clutch bellcrank
Belcrank mounts and springs
Pushrod and boot
Pedals
Shift lever and mechanism
Fab a tower for the opening
Find a boot, make a trim ring

A fair bit of work and searching.


Do I need a different crossmember for this?
Can I get a 1350 output yoke for a Muncie? (My diff is 1350)
Will a Muncie have a 4th gear ratio similar to a 700R4's .7:1?

Did Carl really pack in the conversion?hmm

Cheers, Mark.

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Carl swapped the auto back in. The transmission had a problem-the driveshaft yoke would not seat properly.

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A Poncho Legend!

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cdnpont wrote:

Thanks for all the input guys!

Ok, so I need a Muncie. Probably the easiest way to go. Yes, a T56 would be nice. Perhaps eventually if I was to convert. A T5 might not be up to the task.

And a,

168 tooth bellhousing
168 tooth flywheel and bolts
Clutch
Throwout bearing
Clutch fork and boot
Clutch bellcrank
Belcrank mounts and springs
Pushrod and boot
Pedals
Shift lever and mechanism
Fab a tower for the opening
Find a boot, make a trim ring

A fair bit of work and searching.


Do I need a different crossmember for this?
Can I get a 1350 output yoke for a Muncie? (My diff is 1350)
Will a Muncie have a 4th gear ratio similar to a 700R4's .7:1?

Did Carl really pack in the conversion?hmm

Cheers, Mark.



A couple of notes---

Some guys talk about it needing the special cast iron nose starter. I don't remember why it needs it, but it might. (I may have one for you if needed)

Output yoke is no problem. When the time comes, I can help you with U joints no matter what yokes you have. There is always a way.

4th gear is 1:1 in a Muncie, no overdrive.

 



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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 44,000 original miles 



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I have an M20 muncie sitting here on the floor-if you have interest I'll pull the side cover off and inspect-I was told it was good when I aquired it

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Perhaps it really shouldn't kill my enthusiasm, but the 1:1 ratio 4th of a Muncie kind of points me back at a 700R4. I like the idea of turning around 2100 at 60. 2700 would be just too high. I plan on actually driving this thing. And I'm not touching the rear end again to install a 3.23 -3.55. I have 3.73's, and unless it blows up...
Yes, a T56 with a .8 5th would be awsome, but I estimate at least $3500 for that swap. Plus the tunnel would have to be modified and raised.
I know for some it might be laughable worring about the rpm's, but I remember all too clearly turning well over 3 on the highway in my 73 351C 4spd GranTorinoSport, and I really, really hated it.
Having a M22 with a .7 final would be just too wide wouldn't it? Hence the 5 speed! 

Thanks for the comments and offers, I enjoy learning about this!

Cheers, Mark

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65 Laurentian post, 67 Grande Parisienne 4 door HT. 
 


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67BBSD wrote:

I have an M20 muncie sitting here on the floor-if you have interest I'll pull the side cover off and inspect-I was told it was good when I aquired it



how strong are the m20's will it take a big blocks torque? you might have my interest.

 



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sTevE

55 GMC, 70 Pontiac 2+2 rag



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Mark,

As nice as a 4 5 or 6 speed would be drive, as well as the visual of a hurst ball and handle sticking through the floor, I would go with the 700r4.
You've already given it lots of thought, you know it'll fall within your budget, and you'll enjot it way more if you plan on driving it a lot. Not only will you have the benefit of the overdrive and a calmer engine at highway speeds, PLUS you get a 3.06 first gear, and that's all I'll say about that.

Barry

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A Poncho Legend!

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Stephenzone wrote:
how strong are the m20's will it take a big blocks torque? you might have my interest.

 

 



I believe the trans on a ZL1 Camaro was an M20 or M21 (same strength) so it should be sufficient. That would be close to the ultimate factory big block.

 



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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 44,000 original miles 



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Hey Guy's, I put a BBC w/ 4 speed conversion in my ''66 Chief.I used a ST-10 from my '81 Z-28 w/a 3:42 first gear.The car had a small block w/ a turbo 350.The swap was really easy.It took about 2 trys to get the right u-joints for the rear of the drive shaft.Regarding the starter issue,there is a difference between a BB and a SB .Trust me I know because I have a '68 BBC starter from an auto Nova and it didn't fit in my bellhousing!The nose cone is bigger for an auto. I hope this helps.I have to say this is a great website!!!!Lot's of great info and AWESOME cars.

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Ive heard nothing to good with the 700R4 tranny, everyone that I have known that has had one in their Chevy trucks have had nothing but problems with them.

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